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Historically Great Offense

NAOS said:
Pretty sure the conversations about our exploitable defense are referring to our meltdowns in the last two playoff series losses.... When, in fact, we were horrendously exploitable.
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I know right? Thats why i said it dumb that teams dont exploit our super exploitable defense way more often and make our defense at least non top 10 or something. I mean i have watched all the playoff games of this jazz core era and i have seen our defense get exploited big time. There was one thing those playoff exploitations had in common. Rudy not in paint. I hate rudy not in paint. I look forward to playoff series against teams that let rudy be in paint. I dont look forward to series vs teams that make rudy not be in paint.


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infection said:
I would say this is very much like our rebounding -- we're one of the top couple teams in rebounding, if not the top, but in the clutch we were like 27th last year. Our rebounding looks really good over 44 minutes or so that it drowns everything out. Us being a top defensive team is kind of like dominating rebounds over 43 minutes of the game. It's the other 5 minutes I'm worried about.
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I agree. I too think that top 3 in defense and offense and rebounding etc is not enough. I prefer we are #1 at everything for every minute of every game. Come on Zanick! Freaking idiot zanick needs to fix this mess of a team. He should call the suns gm for advice and ask him how he has won all those titles. I mean since we are already crowning them champs.


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fishonjazz said:
I agree. I too think that top 3 in defense and offense and rebounding etc is not enough. I prefer we are #1 at everything for every minute of every game. Come on Zanick! Freaking idiot zanick needs to fix this mess of a team. He should call the suns gm for advice and ask him how he has won all those titles. I mean since we are already crowning them champs.


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I think you've read a lot into what I was saying and assumed some of what I haven't, but also missed my point. We use amalgamated statistics to justify missing very specific shortcomings. It's not anomalies. It's like discounting the Death Star's very specific weakness because one is just so overwhelmed with its massive size and demonstrable power. Both can be relevant, but they're not mutually exclusive. If we're the #1 rebounding team but we become nearly the worst rebounding team in the clutch, that's a problem. And that problem isn't easily remedied by contentment with being the #1 rebounding team over a season. Likewise, we can be content with a very favorable composite defensive rating, but if it's exploitable in certain circumstances and those circumstances will become a much larger part of the playing-time pie in the playoffs, then it's relevant. It can't be explained away with the waive of a hand and an appeal to amalgamated regular season statistics.
 
fishonjazz said:
I know right? Thats why i said it dumb that teams dont exploit our super exploitable defense way more often and make our defense at least non top 10 or something. I mean i have watched all the playoff games of this jazz core era and i have seen our defense get exploited big time. There was one thing those playoff exploitations had in common. Rudy not in paint. I hate rudy not in paint. I look forward to playoff series against teams that let rudy be in paint. I dont look forward to series vs teams that make rudy not be in paint.


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Do you also look forward to a path through the playoffs where Rudy gets to stay in the paint for each and every series?
 
I look forward to when Q expands his bag. And I’ve had to continually look forward, as it were.
 
fishonjazz said:
Exactly. I look forward to seeing how that plays out. If they were going to force gobert to play on the 3 point line i wouldnt look forward to that.
We played pheonix last year and I enjoyed the overtime game despite the loss. It was a fun game. I havent enjoyed games against the clippers and warriors when gobert had to guard the 3 point line. Those games sucked


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The Suns absolutely FEASTED on the minutes when Gobert was out of the lineup, a lot of teams did. Part of it was Favors, but a lot of it was that the other players couldn't adjust their defense to help Favors out. They don't really need to adjust much when you insert Whiteside.
If the matchup is terrible, we now have the option of bringing in Gay for extended minutes as the secondary paint defender which is a huge change from last year. Jazz have been developing Forrest as a situational guard stopper. He can do well with that as long as he isn't unplayable on offense.

People are acting like everything is the same as last year. It most certainly isn't.
 
All I know is if I could go back in time and was given the choice of playing the suns in the 2nd round last year or the clippers (knowing the clippers were going to remove their center from the equation and go ultra small) then I would chose to play the suns. We still might have lost to the suns but I dont think I would have been AS pissed off about it as I was with how we lost to the clippers.
 
NAOS said:
Do you also look forward to a path through the playoffs where Rudy gets to stay in the paint for each and every series?
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That is what I would prefer yes. Of course. Does any jazz fan prefer a path through the playoffs that doesn't allow rudy to stay in the paint?
 
NAOS said:
That path doesn’t exist, though. That’s kinda the point.
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It might exist. The playoffs are what, 4 rounds (if you win it all). There are more than 4 teams in the nba that play traditional bigs and dont go small. We could get blazers and nurkic in round 1, lakers round 2, suns round 3 and bucks in the finals. Rudy be paint chillin (or at least not having to spend much time on the 3 point line) in all those rounds including the finals. And thats just one path like that, there are others. But i think its unlikely that we have the perfect path in the playoffs so agree that we should be trying things out for when we play an opponent that goes small. I never said otherwise. All I have said, and I have been very consistent on this, is that im more afraid of a team that takes rudy out of the paint than a team that doesn't. Nothing really controversial in that statement imo. I kinda thought we were all in agreement. For some reason that rather obvious and agreed upon statement created a discussion that seems to have run its course.
To summarize, we all hate playing opponents that take rudy out of the paint and we all think that its likely we will face one of those type of teams in the playoffs so we all think that quin and the jazz management should try to have us ready to counter and beat a team that does that. That work for everyone?
 
That offense is still looking pretty great.
 
fishonjazz said:
That offense is still looking pretty great.
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Yes it is - they are playing well. But lets not get too ahead of ourselves, and understand that the Clippers were playing us on the road without Batum and PG13.

The Jazz took care of business and did what they were supposed to do.
 
jazz4life1992 said:
Yes it is - they are playing well. But lets not get too ahead of ourselves, and understand that the Clippers were playing us on the road without Batum and PG13.

The Jazz took care of business and did what they were supposed to do.
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They were also on a 4 game winning streak and playing well too


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fishonjazz said:
They were also on a 4 game winning streak and playing well too


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And they were without Kawhi. Frankly this was a must-win-or-we-look-like-fakes kind of game. All the talk about a team being down key players and playing better than anyone expects can just become an excuse for not taking care of business against a thin and obviously inferior squad. I am glad we slapped them around, but I am not happy it took us a full half to get **** going. We need to get off to better starts. Relying on sudden outbursts throughout the entire season and post-season is not a sustainable game-plan.
 
I enjoyed the last couple of minutes of Locke today (feel free to skip over the first half love fest for Ainge). He summed up the success of our offense through the lens of last night's game.

In the first quarter the Clippers focused on our shooters and Gobert and Whiteside feasted. In the second quarter the Clippers helped down in the paint and we had wide open 3pt shots. In the 3rd quarter the Clippers stopped helping and Conley, Mitchell, and Bogey killed it being guarded 1:1. By the 4th quarter they were broken and didn't know what to do.

I'm not sure if his assessment of last night is completely accurate, but I think the illustration works to describe how difficult it is stop our offense. We have so many weapons and counters for any type of defense out there.
 
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