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How are we going to score without Al?

zman1527 said:
Your point seems to be that the play matters more than the player. So running a one on one iso is the same regardless if you have Kobe Bryant doing it or CJ Miles, right?

Putting the ball into the hands of Slow Al in the low block stagnates the offense for everyone else. This is because he is a poor passer, has very poor vision, and likes to take his time getting a shot off so everyone else stands around watching. Those are HIS personal traits and they do not apply to everyone who gets the ball on the low post so quit trying to say that it does.
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Yes, in regard to holding onto the ball for several seconds. I'm proud of you.
 
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CAKAR said:
If you was an NBA Player your´e self, would you want to go through a paint which is protected by a 290 lb huge Big-Man like BIG-AL ?

I´ dont...
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I'd salivate, especially if I were a small, quick point guard who could break Big Al's ankles and scoot around him unmolested.
 
See once again #212

There's also important rule changes that are glossed over when we talk about this play as if it were the same.

I've let it go. Those of you sticking to your guns re:Al can't expect less from others.... especially when you trot out sickly arguments.
 
I don't care if you want to get rid of him, or don't like his game. I just have a problem with the black hole thing, or that it's Al personally that stagnates the offense. Running anybody in the low post over and over again will stagnate. It's not a ball-movement approach.

If these guys can score without going to that play like they did against LA for the first 4-5 minutes it's a great, great sign. And if you can limit Al to around 30 minutes you also hide his susceptibility to fatigue which solves a whole bunch of other problems. I'm absolutely all for the dude playing in smaller doses, he's a lot more energetic and aggressive when this happens.

If they can't score without him and Corbin reverts to the all Al all the time strategy we will have very little chance of beating the Spurs.
 
...but there is some bit of Al -- personally -- that is responsible. You can try to list all the other causes (and there are quite a few), but you can't ignore the Jefferdad. He has to go on the list. Just ask Millsap.
 
Brown Notes said:
So these guys are all cutting more when Sap, Favors, or Kanter gets the ball in the same situation? I must be missing those games.
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I guess you missed the toronto and laker games.

There did seem to be more cutting in those 2 games. One of them al was out and the other one al was not the focus of the offense.
 
Brown Notes said:
Well there's a reason that low post play is what I bring up, this is the possession in which Al holds onto the ball. The design is exactly where all the black hole talk comes from. Which was true his first year here. Not anymore.

You're not an idiot NAOS. You know I'm not comparing player abilities but rather execution of the same play with different personnel. You also know that is a designed "play". Putting quotation marks around the word does not make it into a myth. That's not streetball Al is playing. You know perfectly well he is doing what he is being coached to do. All the obfuscation by you in here is simply to deflect the premise I made rather than respond to it. It's sad really. Let it go, man.
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Fine brownnotes, you are right it is the same play.
However the play sucks when it ran through al, and it is awesome when ran through karl malone...... Does that clear things up?

Therefore it seems that the "play" isn't the problem... its the player that is executing the play.
 
fishonjazz said:
I guess you missed the toronto and laker games.

There did seem to be more cutting in those 2 games. One of them al was out and the other one al was not the focus of the offense.
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You mean moving more in general, not when a big man is holding the ball on the low block. Hence the question. Another way to look at is what happens when Al touches the ball in another spot. Everywhere else, the ball is designed to keep moving and it does, unless it's late in the clock or he's got an easy uncontested shot.

You're really close, Fish. What needs to happen is to use that low block possession less in order to get the other players more involved. Kanter doesn't do that over and over and over again like Al does because Corbin isn't leaning on him to win the game by himself. Sap becomes the hub of the offense if Al is limited or out, and Sap is more of a high post player (and much more versatile overall).
 
Someone wrote something about some of the Lakers players having season highs, etc.. anyone know where that post is? (specifically)
 
There needs to be more rotation on offense. Big Al just doesnt have the endurance, and speed to do that, not to mention passing ability. The problem with AL is that he is good at scoring against 90% of the teams, but when he goes up against the top 5 teams with huge centers that are talented, he is useless. Al is a great center, but Kanter and Favors are more balanced and better because they defend, and can run the floor much better. Guess what happens when you run the floor? Players like Hawyard, Favors get open, and the other team gets tired. Last nights Utah looked alot like OKC, it was incredible.
 
https://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7lfv8u

I'm thinking we could still score enough after this trade, especially given the ball movement that has been on display lately. Of course, this only works if Favors is ready to play. I'm thinking Milwaukee owes a first to CLE and SAC. I'm flexible with the Jazz sending out the GST pick if that's what it takes. Would be nice to get a 2nd (like 31-35) from CLE or SAC though if that's the case.
 
Med_Phys said:
https://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7lfv8u

I'm thinking we could still score enough after this trade, especially given the ball movement that has been on display lately. Of course, this only works if Favors is ready to play. I'm thinking Milwaukee owes a first to CLE and SAC. I'm flexible with the Jazz sending out the GST pick if that's what it takes. Would be nice to get a 2nd (like 31-35) from CLE or SAC though if that's the case.
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That is a crazy trade. While I like Cousins and Robinson's talent I don't think it makes sense to trade Millsap and Jefferson. Also Sacramento doesn't really need another gunner guard in Monta Ellis to go with Brooks, Jimmer, Thornton and Tyreke. So that is really creative but I don't think Sacramento is gonig to send out Cousins without an very good young big coming back.
 
With a lot of talk about the Kings being sold, I thought that this trade really clears their books for a future owner. Ellis would likely opt-out. Sac gets a young C, a 1st and lots of cap space. They still have Hayes and some other longer term contracts, but nothing terrible.

I thought Robinson would be a cheap, long term replacement to Millsap, although I wouldn't move him if we couldn't get Cousins. I would also be open to the Jazz taking on another longer (2-3 year) contract at 4-7/year if it meant a trade that nets them young bigs like Cousins/Robinson.
 
That trade would have to break some kind of record. Sac would need plenty of picks from all parties and would want to be rid of all bad contracts since this would begin a total reboot.
 
LunaticWolf said:
You're funny. That's why he averages more than double the assists of Enes and Favors per 36, right?
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In his defense, the post you quoted never said anything about enes or favors being great passers so whats is your point?

Big AL is a crappy passer but he is better than 2 guys under 20 years old who are more known for defense and rebounding who have never averaged more than 25 pts per game? Hooray!
 
fishonjazz said:
In his defense, the post you quoted never said anything about enes or favors being great passers so whats is your point?

Big AL is a crappy passer but he is better than 2 guys under 20 years old who are more known for defense and rebounding who have never averaged more than 25 pts per game? Hooray!
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He's claiming that the Jazz offense flows better without Al. We are replacing Al with Favors/Kanter. Neither pass as much as he does.

It gets stagnant when the wings give up and refuse to cut. Not because Al has the ball in the post. 2 assists per game for a C is pretty damn good. Boozer hit in at 3, which was top of the league when he was here. Malone was insane at 4, that is part of the reason he was a ONE OF A KIND player, so you can't expect Jefferson or anyone else ti hit that mark.
 
LunaticWolf said:
He's claiming that the Jazz offense flows better without Al. We are replacing Al with Favors/Kanter. Neither pass as much as he does.

It gets stagnant when the wings give up and refuse to cut. Not because Al has the ball in the post. 2 assists per game for a C is pretty damn good. Boozer hit in at 3, which was top of the league when he was here. Malone was insane at 4, that is part of the reason he was a ONE OF A KIND player, so you can't expect Jefferson or anyone else ti hit that mark.
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But replacing al with favors/kanter means we throw the ball into the post less.... so while kanter/favors dont pass better than big al or get more assists than big al, the rest of the team passes the ball around more and get more touches, assists and shots when al is out.

Because corbin believes in big al so much, he just pounds the ball to al all game long..... when kanter was in for big al, corbin doesn't have the same faith in kanter to dominate the paint offensively so the offensive becomes less post up dominant.
 
Med_Phys said:
https://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7lfv8u

I'm thinking we could still score enough after this trade, especially given the ball movement that has been on display lately. Of course, this only works if Favors is ready to play. I'm thinking Milwaukee owes a first to CLE and SAC. I'm flexible with the Jazz sending out the GST pick if that's what it takes. Would be nice to get a 2nd (like 31-35) from CLE or SAC though if that's the case.
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There is no way a trade with that many moving parts would be approved by any of those GMs. Why would every one of these teams blow up 5 or 6 components?

I don't think I've ever seen a trade with that many players in the NBA.

From Utah's perspective, why would we trade our 2 best players for a hard to work with/bad character guy (these things matter for Utah's front office) in Cousins, two bad player Garcia/Walton, and 1 unproven rookie (thomas)? This would be very hard for the organization to spin. Also, why would Milwaukee give up 4 rotation players when the team is playing well? I can see why Cleveland does this trade. But I don't know why Sacramento, Utah, or Milwaukee do this trade.

The Jazz need/should keep 1 Millsap or 1 Jefferson (personally, I'd rather keep Jefferson). They are not going to ship both of them off this season, they may unload 1 and then resign the other, but no way a trade like this goes down. And particularly not for what accounts to a bust (cousins), 2 bad players (luke walton) and a player Sacramento would be giving up on too soon.
 
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