NAOS
Well-Known Member
It's bloody obvious that the offense is generating much more open shots. Like waaaay. I'm not 100% explaining that away by saying "ease of the schedule" and neither should you.
Is Favors in the long-term plans at this point?
- Thread starter David Stern
- Start date
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
Not at all. Provide an idea of how a Rubio/Favors/Gobert lineup can work after "adjusting"
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Is this a troll post?
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I’d start either Favors or Gobert (matchup based) at the 5 with Jerebko, Jingles, Mitchell and Rubio to begin with (since that’s been working fairly well lately). I sub out Jerebko and Rubio for the other of Gobert/Favors and Hood.
Gobert, Favors, Jingles, Hood and Mitchell get a good look together at least twice every game from now until the trade deadline.
Aside from that, I stagger Gobert/Favors at the 5 and give Jerebko, Sefalosha and JJ (once he’s healthy) the remaining 4 minutes. Rubio can play with any of those lineups as long as some combination of Jingles, Mitchell, Hood and (good) Burks is out there with them.
Udoh’s minutes get dinged, but I keep him in case either of Gobert or Favors needs more rest or a night off to stay healthy and fresh.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
Thanks for actually providing a plan, but there's only 48 center minutes a game. If Favors is going to get 25-30 minutes he's going to have to play 10-15 as a 4 w/ Gobert and/or Udoh. Now if the plan is to only play Rubio when only one of those 2 is on the court then that's fine.
Again, I would not make any move before February. I just think a lot of the offensive criticisms fall on Favors/Gobert front court where I would shift the target to a Rubio/Favors/Gobert trio.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Rubio was arguably our best player for the first 10 games of the season -- despite the super short training camp and challenging opening schedule. Ten games later, and after an injury to our best player, etc., the general consensus seem to be that Rubio is trash and has reached is ceiling with the rest of the components.
Praise JFC. smfh.
Praise JFC. smfh.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
as quoted, it is a simple concept. But the quoted sentiment has no relationship to the fact that they can and probably will improve together.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
And my "troll post" was wondering how with no answer yet. Bigs aren't going to suddenly hedge, switch, or do anything but stay in the paint on a Rubio/Gobert pick and roll.
Spinoza
Well-Known Member
The offense looks much better without Gobert, which isn't surprising in the least. Competence at that end has always been Gobert's major weakness. It was just a couple of years I recall I couldn't stand watching him at that end of the court. At the same time, also not surprising, the defense doesn't look nearly as good. The question then is does the improved offense outweigh the diminished defense? So far it absolutely has, which I think brings to light a lot of interesting questions, such as, is it wise to build around Gobert? Would the Jazz be better off if they could trade him for another all-star? He's an incredible talent, but there's no denying the Jazz have been playing far better as a team with Favors being the center instead of Rudy.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
you were asking "how" without putting any stock in the idea that they would improve. It was a throw-the-hands-up kind of "how"..... A I-fully-don't-believe-in-this "how". I, on the other hand, take it as a matter of fact that they will improve. Probably in a few ways.
Ingles may take more PnR responsibility... with Rubio working off secondary or tertiary actions/'advantages'.
Look, I'm not convinced Rubio/Gobert/Favors will be effective enough together. But to act like we've seen their ceiling is just straight madness.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Jerebko is available. Joe Johnson will be available soon. I think the jazz should sign them.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
They aren't long-term answers. But no team in the league has long-term answers at every position.
MDAV28
Well-Known Member
Ingles already takes more responsibility. Same with Hood, same with Mitchell. The whole offense is premised on the idea of secondary or tertiary actions/'advantages'. Gobert has come a long way in scoring off a roll that's not a dunk, so yes he could technically add a pick and pop I guess? Instead of working with hypotheticals, as these players are presently constructed, it's harder for them to coexist together. My point is that the team was very good last year in a lineup with Favors and Gobert. Gobert has a lot tougher time with a guy like Rubio and vice versa.
I'm simply asking a basketball strategy question of how cause I genuinely can't figure it out. If the solution is to not run a Rubio/Gobert PNR than that just flat out sucks.
I'm going to claw my face off trying to walk the whole world through this:
1) Favors has played with space this year, Gobert has not. Gobert did last year, it seemed to go pretty ****ing well.
2) The team and offense continues to be a work in progress. Mitchell is playing a lot better, the team is both generating and hitting more open shots. Favors benefits from this, again, largely because he's the guy in the middle.
3) Favors is not re-signing here with Gobert here*. If you want to keep Favors longtern, you'd have to trade our franchise player, one of the most effective defenders to ever live, one of the most efficient offensive players in the world when he has space, and that's already locked down just so you can HOPE that you can re-sign Favors. That is insane.
* DUH. He's also been signaling that he's probably on his way out for a couple years now. With this stretch, you can bet he's more certain than ever of his place and his worth, and that's not me throwing shade about it. Furthermore, he's had chronic injuries for years and years, and we're supposed to just assume that that issue has vanished?
