Millsap and Hayward to Cavs?
- Thread starter udflyer
- Start date
The exception proves the rule. And Randolph's problem wasn't that he was a complete dullard, it was that he was selfish and made a decision to be less-so. When Al can CHOOSE to be smart, then maybe what you say holds water.
And FWIW, Randolph never got traded to a winning team, then that team subsequently go through it's most disastrous season in its history.
dipship31
Well-Known Member
Okur/Raja/GS Pick for #2 this year?
That just can't be, but if for whatever reason that part of it can be true I'd say just work this deal with Minny and forget about the Cavs one. I'd say take Williams/Knight with the 2/3 and here's our new line-up:
Knight/Harris (maybe switched for a year or 2 until Knight is ready to go)
Hayward/CJ
Williams/Evans
Al Jeff/Millsap
Favors/Fes (or whatever backup)
I'd be pleased with this.
That just can't be, but if for whatever reason that part of it can be true I'd say just work this deal with Minny and forget about the Cavs one. I'd say take Williams/Knight with the 2/3 and here's our new line-up:
Knight/Harris (maybe switched for a year or 2 until Knight is ready to go)
Hayward/CJ
Williams/Evans
Al Jeff/Millsap
Favors/Fes (or whatever backup)
I'd be pleased with this.
Agree Bentley. I've made it widely known that I love Brandon but I wouldn't take him top 5. 7-10, sure.
I would actually do the Cavs trade if we could end up with Kyrie and Kanter (not popular on here, I know) and would be breaking my hand getting my pen out of my pocket to sign the deal.
As for the above, I agree, Williams and Kanter.
I would actually do the Cavs trade if we could end up with Kyrie and Kanter (not popular on here, I know) and would be breaking my hand getting my pen out of my pocket to sign the deal.
As for the above, I agree, Williams and Kanter.
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
Why do you hate Big Al? 19,10 and 2 block guys don't grow on trees. He is in his prime and a top PF/C in this league. Remember, he put up these #'s while dealing with his best teammate(Deron) being traded along with a new coach midway through the year. It was his first year in the system and IIRC Boozer didn't do great his first year in the system, yet Big Al still put up great #'s. Most importantly, he is very durable and played through injuries last year. Get Big Al a couple shooters on this team and he will be even better
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
Who is on your board above Knight. I like Knight but not in love with him but can't think of anyone I'd draft at 4 or 5 in front of him
If you have to ask, you've probably been ignoring what I and a significant contingent of this site have been saying. Or you can't comprehend it.
P.S. Thanks for the (anonymous at the time) neg rep for my having merely a different opinion on the matter than you.
Agreed, I'd much rather have Big AL, then Millsap! But I don't really like the idea of Millsap, Miles, Evans and the 3rd pick for the 1st & 4th. Maybe if it was the 12th instead of the 3rd. But im very excited to be hearing that Utah is looking into a few options!
That's, not surprising!
I think the fact that the Jazz are being mentioned in rumors is good, as it shows that we're active. KOC should be stirring the pot.
That said, I'd be surprised if the Jazz let go of Hayward so quickly, unless they're sold on someone else at SG that they think they can get in this draft.
That said, I'd be surprised if the Jazz let go of Hayward so quickly, unless they're sold on someone else at SG that they think they can get in this draft.
What? You act like you know me? And how is that surprising? And I don't think that KOC will trade his future in Hayward/Favors, unles it returns us a mega superstar (Howard) which I just don't see happening
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm not big on drafting PGs early unless they're can't miss studs. Even then I'm hesitant. I think PGs in the 20s - guys like Nolan Smith, Reggie Jackson, Darius Morris, maybe even Charles Jenkins - could be as decent as Knight (this is my opinion, which I know many of those smitten with Knight disagree with). It's a gamble but these guys don't cost the Jazz a top 10 pick. So I'd use the top pick on a big. It's tough this year because there aren't many sure things there either but I'd rather gamble on one of them than a PG I can get any year. I don't feel Knight is all that special.
Ok, enough qualifying. I'd probably take Biyombo before Knight. I'd probably take Valanciunas before Knight. I might take Vesely before Knight. Who knows - maybe Motiejunas too. Probably Hamilton, Singleton, Brooks, and Leonard as well. As you can see there are quite a few I'd take before Knight. Needless to say I don't feel the desperate need for a PG that others do. Not this year anyway.
I figure the Jazz are building towards something 2 or 3 years away. I see potentially great PGs nearly every year. This year I see a few but only one that might be worth a top pick (and he's probably going 1st). Next year is a strong wing year so I figure the Jazz can fill the wing spot next year.
This year isn't ideal to get a top pick but at least the Jazz have a chance at some size. So that's what I'd grab. At 12 another big, Motiejunas, might be available. I don't know if I'd take him or not since he doesn't rebound or play defense but it's hard to pass on a 7 footer with his offensive talent. If Biyombo is there at 12 I'd be all over that project.
The Jazz can't play all these bigs, but since bigs are a premium you draft them when you have the opportunity to. Then you have something of value to trade that'll bring in a nicer haul than a little guy would.
Never draft for need. BPA, but still factor in value. Unless a small is obviously the BPA then the big has more value.
Dude, relax.
I know you feel strongly about it, but I disagree.
I would rather keep Al and trade Sap given a choice between them as long as it was a good deal.
I would keep Al's length, even though I think Sap is great.
He is just too short at the 4.
That being said, I really hope he works on his quickness, and spends the summer working on his game at the 3 spot.
If he could come back a little more lean, and be able to take over the 3 spot, that would be awesome.
Do you realize how much you're contradicting yourself lately? I agree that we should take Kanter over Knight, but your bias just doesn't quit. In one thread, you give credit to Knight for what he has the potential of being so the Knight apologists don't come after you (although you've maintained that he's not a top 3 pick), and then you come in and say that Charles Jenkings could be as good as him. Come on. Even in this post alone, you say you'd take take Motiejunas over him, but then you go on to say that he doesn't rebound or play defense, but you'd still take him over Knight? After having having bigs that haven't played a lick of defense, but at least could rebound, AND having 5 big men who are going to get regular minutes (assuming we go Kanter), and you'd STILL take Motiejunas over him? You've said you would be happy about taking him with the 6 pick (if we still had it) but then you say you'd pick seven players before him that are projected far worse than Knight in a week draft, many of which are either one-dimensional or completely unproven? You'd rather take a guy who's destined to be a role player (if that) than a guy who fills a need and who will replace Devin Harris in the starting lineup within a year or two? Come on. Your hate at this point is just in spite of the people that like Knight. He is not a top 3 player in the draft, even in one as weak as this one is, but he IS a clear cut top 5 because of what he brings to the table, what he's shown he can do, and because he's shown clear improvement and a willingness to learn by working his *** off. His potential is more than enough for him being a top 5 draftee THIS year. Kanter is the obvious choice at 3 (if Williams is off the board), but you're all over the place in your player evaluation and don't seem to have an opinion of your own other than Kanter is awesome. You just seem to be trying to please everybody.
Fishsticks
Banned
^^^^^
This.....HARD
This.....HARD
Two things on this Bentley, I think you are dead wrong in evaluating Knight's talent. While I agree that he is not a top 3 pick he is night and day better than the players you listed above. 2 thinks that make him better, He is a good shooter and he plays very good defense on the outside. (2 things that would greatly help the Jazz BTW) Plus is a guy that you know is going to come in and work his *** off right from the get go. There is no question marks in these areas. Plus because of his ability to shoot he can slide over to the 2 with the size he has and work off the ball. Again something that he well be willing to do because of his work ethic and IQ. There is a reason that scouts have this guys going top 4 in most drafts. We are talking about a league that is being dominated by guards. And I see something in Knight as a player that to me makes him a better option than any player outside of Irving, Williams and Kanter. And if KOC is going to take the BPA with a pick outside the top 3 look for that to be Knight.
How about this one?
Paul Millsap and the #3 pick to Cleveland for the #1 pick and Anderson Varejao
We then select Derrick Williams #1 overall and Cleveland gets #3 for Kanter and #4 for Brandon Knight. We then select Fredette at #12.
Utah Depth Chart:
PG: Devin Harris, Jimmer Fredette, Earl Watson
SG: Gordon Hayward, C.J. Miles, Raja Bell
SF: Derrick Williams, Andrei Kirlenko (re-signed), Jeremy Evans
PF: Derrick Favors, Mehmet Okur, Jeremy Evans
C: Al Jefferson, Anderson Varejao, Kyrylo Fesenko
Cleveland Depth Chart:
PG: Baron Davis, Brandon Knight, Ramon Sessions
SG: Daniel Gibson, Anthony Parker, Manny Harris
SF: Paul Millsap, Antawn Jameson, Joey Graham
PF: J.J. Hickson, Samardo Samuels, Luke Harangody
C: Enes Kanter, Ryan Hollins, Semih Erden
Paul Millsap and the #3 pick to Cleveland for the #1 pick and Anderson Varejao
We then select Derrick Williams #1 overall and Cleveland gets #3 for Kanter and #4 for Brandon Knight. We then select Fredette at #12.
Utah Depth Chart:
PG: Devin Harris, Jimmer Fredette, Earl Watson
SG: Gordon Hayward, C.J. Miles, Raja Bell
SF: Derrick Williams, Andrei Kirlenko (re-signed), Jeremy Evans
PF: Derrick Favors, Mehmet Okur, Jeremy Evans
C: Al Jefferson, Anderson Varejao, Kyrylo Fesenko
Cleveland Depth Chart:
PG: Baron Davis, Brandon Knight, Ramon Sessions
SG: Daniel Gibson, Anthony Parker, Manny Harris
SF: Paul Millsap, Antawn Jameson, Joey Graham
PF: J.J. Hickson, Samardo Samuels, Luke Harangody
C: Enes Kanter, Ryan Hollins, Semih Erden
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm certainly not pleasing fans of Brandon Knight. Dude I'm not sure on Kanter - I'm not as sure as you Dtol on a lot of these picks. While I see Motiejonas' positives I also worry about his negatives so I'm not real sure about him either, but I think if he can be another Bargnani in the league then yeah, I'd gamble the 12th pick on that before Knight. It's not that Knight won't be competent. I think he will, I think he'll be pretty good even. But I think that there are many PGs that can be pretty good, whereas 7 footers with Bargnani talent - in spite of their defensive warts - are less common. I'm just thinking in terms of best trade value. Supply and demand - so bigs have more value than smalls. Ty still needs to figure out what system he's even gonna be running. While he's figuring this out the Jazz should collect valuable big pieces that they can trade/spend on players after Ty figures out what he's doing. And big pieces will allow them more value to spend. Make sense? It's not like the Jazz are going to be winning anything this year so I don't feel a need to fill every hole on the roster. I'm thinking 2 or 3 years away. With the high picks this year I'm not thinking PG (besides they have Harris for now).
And yeah, of course I'm guilty of being all over the place. Dude, look at the draft this year. You are the only one certain of a prospects' value. I'm not.
Call me agnostic but I want more information. Based the info available to me my philosophy is the same. Bigs before smalls (unless there is enough perceived talent that you have to go with the small). As info comes in my draft board changes. I was once high on Singleton but I've since dropped him down a bit, but Knight has never had much value to me. I could be wrong but I'd probably still put Singleton before him. I don't expect you to be pleased with my draft board but it's not meant to piss you off.
And yeah, of course I'm guilty of being all over the place. Dude, look at the draft this year. You are the only one certain of a prospects' value. I'm not.
Call me agnostic but I want more information. Based the info available to me my philosophy is the same. Bigs before smalls (unless there is enough perceived talent that you have to go with the small). As info comes in my draft board changes. I was once high on Singleton but I've since dropped him down a bit, but Knight has never had much value to me. I could be wrong but I'd probably still put Singleton before him. I don't expect you to be pleased with my draft board but it's not meant to piss you off.
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