More death threats -- Woman take video of her walk through New York

[One Brow]

No chance. There is absolutely no doubt that drug/alcohol use is greater in those areas. Unless you believe that sober people behave the same as the intoxicated.

You're kidding, right? Drug/alcohol use is generally constant across the economic spectrum.

https://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09595230500102434

Whole[sic] poverty and heavy substance use are not necessary related, poverty often increases the harm for a given level of use.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10865-007-9098-3

Associations between SES and health behaviors conformed to two patterns. First, low SES was associated with poorer diets, less physical activity, and greater cigarette smoking. Second, there was no clear pattern of associations between SES and alcohol consumption or marijuana use.

 

[♪alt13]

I should know better than to accurately characterize a known pseudo-feminist? Quoting Summers on feminism is like quoting the Discovery Institute on evolution.



Link in prior post.



That would be a great point to make, if there were some sort of serious, sizable movement to enact such legislation.

Perhaps you meant the editorial (link) that Summers displayed.



Are you opposed to make it illegal to attempt to intimidate women, or did you trust that Sommers had fairly presented the contents of the editorial?

You are such a hypocrite. A man deciding a woman isn't a real feminist. Remember this post the next time you attempt to claim that someone's position or opinion isn't valid because they are a white man.

 

[One Brow]

90% of rural women are harassed walking down the street? Were they harassed by people or cattle?
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Do you honestly believe more rural women are harassed than urban ones? Doesn't seem credible.

I think it is about the same. Harassment is an expression of patriarchy, and patriarchy applies to all three environments.

However, I would expect there is a difference in frequency, as you will come across men less often in a rural environment.

I try to make it a point to trust data over my own expectations. There are other surveys on the issue, they don't disagree on this.

 

[One Brow]

Hey OneBelow thanks for neg rep and tattling to the mod

You're welcome. I very rarely neg rep, you really earned it.

There is no such thing as race right OneBelow? We are all one species and speciation is myth.

Race is primarily a social construct, and most of the difference attributed to race have more variation within a race than between different races. Humans are far less diverse than, for example, dogs or cats.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

You're welcome. I very rarely neg rep, you really earned it.



Race is primarily a social construct, and most of the difference attributed to race have more variation within a race than between different races. Humans are far less diverse than, for example, dogs or cats.

Ya dude I earned it because I explained a scientific theory to you small brain? Am I going to get another neg and infraction for make suggest that black people evolved higher melatonin levels because they live in hotter climate? You are insane no wonder Ernie meenie called you.

Race is not social construct. You mean to tell me African continent is social construct or that native Americans did not exist? Dont try white wash history I will not let you get away with. Humans evolved apart from each other and have characteristics different. Why you think palentologist can tell you which race based on skull character? Because palentologist is racist? Okay dude.

Guess what Asians are more small height and black males have bigger package no matter if it offends you.

 

[One Brow]

You are such a hypocrite. A man deciding a woman isn't a real feminist. Remember this post the next time you attempt to claim that someone's position or opinion isn't valid because they are a white man.

I hope you will remember it. I'm sure you will fail to see the difference in the future, as you do right now. I'm not particularly worry in your assessment of my integrity; you should have been more careful of your own first. If Stoked says (in a serious context) I'm being hypocritical, or LogGrad98, or Gameface, or E. J. Wells, I'll think about whether they might be right. At the very least, it means I explained myself poorly. I don't concern myself in that way when you are the claimant.

If Sommers wants to say that she likes being catcalled, that she never experiences discrimination or harassment based on her gender, etc., or if Sowell/Petersen/etc. make similar claims with racism, I will take her at her word, and the most I would say is they have been very lucky in that regard. It is not my place to describe their experience in the world. When I say white men don't have a valid opinion on what it is like to deal with the effects of racism/sexism, it's because they lack such experience.

However, it's entirely different to talk about whether their actual positions belie their stated intent. Sommers claims to be a feminist, but her produced content against feminism greatly outweighs her produced content in favor of it.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

You're welcome. I very rarely neg rep, you really earned it.



Race is primarily a social construct, and most of the difference attributed to race have more variation within a race than between different races. Humans are far less diverse than, for example, dogs or cats.

Yeah because all species should evolve variation at same rate and if humans have less variation than cats then it doesn't exist.

How stupid analogy you compare humans to domesticated breeds? Guess what I can breed variation into humans if you let me treat like dogs. I will make green mini peoples with cut tail bobs. Sorry but you just got owned.

 

[One Brow]

Ya dude I earned it because I explained a scientific theory to you small brain?

You must understand a theory in order to explain it properly, and I don't take you seriously enough to go into that discussion with you.

 

[Gameface]

I think it is about the same. Harassment is an expression of patriarchy, and patriarchy applies to all three environments.

However, I would expect there is a difference in frequency, as you will come across men less often in a rural environment.

I try to make it a point to trust data over my own expectations. There are other surveys on the issue, they don't disagree on this.

Do you honestly think when a man sees an attractive woman he has a conscious thought that he must express and reinforce the notion of patriarchy? Or is it possible that the man is just expressing his attraction in a crude way because he's not sure what else to do?

 

[GVC]

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Oxyg...sment+of+Women+on+the+Street+Is...-a062870396

-- 90% of rural women
-- 88% of suburban women
-- 87% of urban women

With a margin of error close to 4%, these numbers are basically identical.

This is geographic, not economic. In an urban/rural/suburban setting (these should be controls), how is wealth correlated with street harassment? This falls so incredibly short...that you think this is sufficient to make a factual claim is telling.

 

[♪alt13]

I hope you will remember it. I'm sure you will fail to see the difference in the future, as you do right now. I'm not particularly worry in your assessment of my integrity; you should have been more careful of your own first. If Stoked says (in a serious context) I'm being hypocritical, or LogGrad98, or Gameface, or E. J. Wells, I'll think about whether they might be right. At the very least, it means I explained myself poorly. I don't concern myself in that way when you are the claimant.

If Sommers wants to say that she likes being catcalled, that she never experiences discrimination or harassment based on her gender, etc., or if Sowell/Petersen/etc. make similar claims with racism, I will take her at her word, and the most I would say is they have been very lucky in that regard. It is not my place to describe their experience in the world. When I say white men don't have a valid opinion on what it is like to deal with the effects of racism/sexism, it's because they lack such experience.

However, it's entirely different to talk about whether their actual positions belie their stated intent. Sommers claims to be a feminist, but her produced content against feminism greatly outweighs her produced content in favor of it.

Have I been reckless with my integrity? I may be wrong, a dick, a douche but I don't think I'm dishonest or disingenuous.

 

[One Brow]

Do you honestly think when a man sees an attractive woman he has a conscious thought that he must express and reinforce the notion of patriarchy?

Nope. See the Russell quote in my signature.

Or is it possible that the man is just expressing his attraction in a crude way because he's not sure what else to do?

Which can be altered by cultural change.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

You must understand a theory in order to explain it properly, and I don't take you seriously enough to go into that discussion with you.

I understand you are a race denier but always crying racism. Your two positions can not exist together so I understand why you are avoiding the one and getting a mod to erase it for you.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

maybe we need a "Hollafirst" non-profit organization to produce a video that encourages women to cat-call at men who are passing by

then we could just all holla at each otha

Sexuality is primarily a social construct. There is no reason to exclude transgender or gay harassment since difference between sexes doesn't really exist like it does in cats or dogs.

 

[GVC]

I should know better than to accurately characterize a known pseudo-feminist? Quoting Summers on feminism is like quoting the Discovery Institute on evolution.

You chose to dismiss everything she had to say based entirely on her political ideology. If you don't want to discuss her arguments, why attack her character/authority?

That would be a great point to make, if there were some sort of serious, sizable movement to enact such legislation.

Perhaps you meant the editorial (link) that Summers displayed.

She's questioning the value of this video/group. She notes that beyond raising awareness, they've included in their mission statement a possible role for legislators/law enforcement. She argued that legislating certain behaviors might have unintended negative consequences on marginalized groups (that could outweigh the direct negative effects of the behavior).

Are you opposed to make it illegal to attempt to intimidate women, or did you trust that Sommers had fairly presented the contents of the editorial?

I think it's fair to consider the relative cost/harm of both the legislated behavior and the intended/unintended effects of the legislation.

 

[One Brow]

This is geographic, not economic. In an urban/rural/suburban setting (these should be controls), how is wealth correlated with street harassment? This falls so incredibly short...that you think this is sufficient to make a factual claim is telling.

I associate "suburban" with "middle class and higher". Perhaps that is a blindness on my part? Do you have data that suggests there is no economic difference between suburban populations and urban/rural population?

Based on that, and the null hypothesis of expecting no difference, I'll maintain that there is no difference until it is demonstrated otherwise.

Sommers statement strikes me as not any different than freakazoid's claim that poor people do more drugs and alcohol. It's based on the racism inherent in media presentations, not reality.

 

[One Brow]

Have I been reckless with my integrity? I may be wrong, a dick, a douche but I don't think I'm dishonest or disingenuous.

I would never describe you as a dick, and rarely, if ever, as a douche.

I find the general position of calling for more civility and less brashness in these discussions often indicates a desire to keep the discussions from happening with any serious intent, and this is a position I have associated you with. Also, previously in this thread, you took a statement I had made with a specific reasoning, discarded the reasoning entirely, and asked directly if I was using some other, less honest reason. Both of those behaviors were disingenuous.

 

[One Brow]

You chose to dismiss everything she had to say based entirely on her political ideology. If you don't want to discuss her arguments, why attack her character/authority?

I don't dismiss based on her ideology, but on her tactics in presenting it.

Which argument, in particular, do you think she made that merits discussion?

She's questioning the value of this video/group. She notes that beyond raising awareness, they've included in their mission statement a possible role for legislators/law enforcement. She argued that legislating certain behaviors might have unintended negative consequences on marginalized groups (that could outweigh the direct negative effects of the behavior).

That's true of pretty much any piece of legislation.

I think it's fair to consider the relative cost/harm of both the legislated behavior and the intended/unintended effects of the legislation.

To which legislation do you refer? Is there any bill under any consideration in the US or Canada?

 

[GVC]

I associate "suburban" with "middle class and higher". Perhaps that is a blindness on my part? Do you have data that suggests there is no economic difference between suburban populations and urban/rural population?

You're missing the point. How many police departments/precincts operate in both urban and rural locations? Since the NYC police department will enforce laws (almost?) exclusively in an urban setting, the relationship between income and catcalling within the city, and thus who will will be affected by the legislation, is what's relevant. The prevalence of catcalls in rural upstate New York is completely irrelevant.

 

[One Brow]

You're missing the point. How many police departments/precincts operate in both urban and rural locations? Since the NYC police department will enforce laws (almost?) exclusively in an urban setting, the relationship between income and catcalling within the city, and thus who will will be affected by the legislation, is what's relevant. The prevalence of catcalls in rural upstate New York is completely irrelevant.

???

I said, "For example, her claim that street harassment occurs more frequently in economically deprived neighborhoods is factually false." I was asked to provide evidence that this particular statement was factually false, and offered the study as evidence that this statement was false. The study was not offered with the intent of justifying any particular type of legislation.

I agree legislation on this matter would affect poor people more than rich people, almost all legislation does. It is something to weigh upon in any potential legislation.