So much for hayward extension. Paul George got max deal
- Thread starter udflyer
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Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Why are so many people surprised George got the max?
This is the climate of the league. There will be players getting the max who aren't quite max players. If Indy doesn't do it some desperate team will and Indy can't just let him walk or trade him. Are they supposed to just not pay someone until they find a true max (Lebron, Durant, etc..)?
There are plenty of players who are overpaid. Might as well overpay a guy like George. He makes you better and you have to spend that money anyways.
There just isn't enough true max players to go around. So people will be overpaid.
This is the climate of the league. There will be players getting the max who aren't quite max players. If Indy doesn't do it some desperate team will and Indy can't just let him walk or trade him. Are they supposed to just not pay someone until they find a true max (Lebron, Durant, etc..)?
There are plenty of players who are overpaid. Might as well overpay a guy like George. He makes you better and you have to spend that money anyways.
There just isn't enough true max players to go around. So people will be overpaid.
Batum n Matthews might not be the best example now that Lillard is there and they snagged Lopez, but prior to this paying those two didn't win them much.
Fan base optimism is important. Every city is filled with hopers who overvalue their package.
(Fixed your typo.)
It's hard to say. Korver types can run some serious havoc on defenses. The wrinkles you can add with these select few players are pretty damn awesome. Hayward is obviously better at many things on both ends of the floor, but production for the price paid is a huge part of the equation that tends to get lost in these discussions.
GVC
Well-Known Member
And that's what I was getting at. As you acquire players with elite skill in several areas, do-it-all players lose some of their punch (decreasing returns to the things they contribute). One- or two-dimensional players give you nearly the same value for a fraction of the price. Hayward has value on a team that has one star or a couple near stars, as he can fill in more of the gaps (what he provides has more value at the margin).
That is, it's entirely possible neither the Jazz nor the Clippers would seriously consider a Dudley for Hayward trade next offseason. The extras Hayward would provide to the Clippers are not nearly as valuable as the extras he provides to the Jazz.
This could just be a business decision on Indy's part. They may see PG as the face of their franchise. By maxing him they maybe trying to enforce the idea with their fans that they've got a young superstar on their team. PG may have that kind of value to that franchise. The Jazz have talent spread across all positions, so they don't need to break the bank too soon for any one of them.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
This smells a little bit like the Gasol/AK situation. Jazz gave AK the max because Memphis had just done the same with Pau. No need for Jazz to panic; Hayward is a RFA. They can match any offer.
What is the mid-level exception these days and what does he make now? These are two things to consider. I think he is probably worth 7 million a year considering what he has done. I know this isn't how the NBA works but I think it would be a better business way to do it. Take out your love for Hayward and in the end he is a slight above average player at this time. He does a lot of nice things and still have "potential" but he hasn't been our main guy yet. I think before even a giving a player a MAX contract, he has to be best player without question and has to put up consistent numbers for more than one year. You don't pay on potential on the second contract that is what you do with a rookie. What has he proven?
I know this thinking isn't reality but personally it drives we crazy when franchises over pay and then complain about how they can't do anything because they overpay guys like AK, Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay when any informed fan could have told you that none of those players were worth their contract before they signed it.
I love Hayward and want to see him stay a Jazz man but there is NO way he is worth a Max deal. The problem is many franchise are afraid to lose a player so they give him more than he is worth. Most teams usually end up regretting it. THe problem is that young players like George can have one good year and then have a very good play off and the media starts talking about them as he is the next MJ. It has become almost an unwritten entitlement if any young guy shows "great" potential even though he hasn't actually proven that it will be a longer term greatness or if his greatness actually helps the team (Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson).
If the NBA wanted to control costs they should have created a system of tiered rankings. In my opinion a MAX player is as overused as GREAT player. THere are few MAX players in the league. MY lists of MAX players is short.. Lebron, Healthy Kobe, and Durrant
The rest near MAX guys are CP3, Derrick Rose, Tim Duncan (he is old but he once was a max guy), Parker,Wade (when healthy is a Max guy), Dirk (no longer but was worthy of his deal), Carmelo (still don't like his game), Harden, Westbrook, DW.
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
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https://www.nerdgraph.com/the-monetary-value-of-a-human-life/
Somewhere around $5 million it would appear.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/business/economy/17regulation.html?_r=0
Could be as high a $9 mill though.
So I would say somewhere around $7-$9 mill is about right.
ncoloradojazz
Banned
Paul George is a beast. Hayward is a scrub. So what does what George make have to do with what Hayward will get????????????????? Jezz fans says Paul George sucks but Hayward is good. Imo, Put down the kool aid for once
Jazzonic3030
Member
Hayward is very smart. he understands the situation. Pacers were a good team last year. Paul George greatly part of that success.
Woah, some of you guys overreacting.
George is an All-Star and the best player on a ECF team taking the Heat to game 7.
Hayward is a very good player, not the best, on a lottery team.
How much koolaid one must drink to even think PG's contract has anything to do with Hayward's tag?
George is an All-Star and the best player on a ECF team taking the Heat to game 7.
Hayward is a very good player, not the best, on a lottery team.
How much koolaid one must drink to even think PG's contract has anything to do with Hayward's tag?
Agreed, but the question isn't whether WE think George's contract has anything to do with it, it's whether HAYWARD (and/or his agent) thinks that. I don't know the answer to that question, but it seems quite possible.
Well, none of us can know that so the discussion is destined to fall back to what WE think.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Hayward is not just a role player. To say so is rediculus. Just because he doesn't have that sexy killer crossover, or the fact that he's not the most athletic guy on the team doesn't relegate him to the role of role player. Look at everything he does. He shoots an elite % from deep, he gets to the foul line, he shoots low to mid 80% range, he's a good passer, and still improving, he's very aggressive in transition, he hustles every play, a very good help defender, very good shot blocker for his position, and the biggest thing for me is that he can defend.
In my view he does more to help his team win then someone like a Joe Johnson or Rudy Gay, infact if you gave me the choice between the three I'd choose Hayward. I would not bat an eye to pay him 10 to 12 million a year. Hell he's got to be more valuable to the Jazz then AK was to the Wolves last year. Um... How much did AK make last year? Bottom line is he makes this team better then if we had a Joe Johnson. His game will inhance the games of Favors Kanter and young Burke, because he won't dominate the ball, and gives them room to operate and find more production because the opposition still has to worry about Hayward and gameplan to limit him. Like Stockton people will overlook him because he doesn't make the jaw dropping plays all the time or doesn't look sexy getting from point A to point B, but he gets there the easiest way possible. He won't light up sportscenter, but he's going to get the job done.
If we pay him 10 million we are judging his value now. If the jazz go as high as 12, this is judging what he will be. Right now he plays for a young team that needs to learn to win, and they probably won't win more then 30-40 games at the most if even that, so I think we can afford to let the league set his value. I think we will start to see his true value over the next few years as the team gets more experience and a better coach that knows how to coach and get the most out of an offense.
So, just wondering who you think is a better player then Hayward on this team? I think it could be Favors by mid season, but for now he still needs to figure out how to stay on the out and not be a liability on offense. If he can learn to stay out of foul trouble, and develop a go to move on offense then I see him being the best player on the team. Is it Kanter or Burks? Don make me laugh! First half of the year he couldn't even get off the bench, and rarely finished a game, and Kanter is still so raw in his development as a player and I don't even believe he got 20 per game in the rotation, and still has to prove he can handle an 82 game season get in 25 to 30 minutes let alone starter mins. Of the core4 Hayward is the one player who has really proven himself and now the jazz want him to be the leader of the team, and there isn't one player that deserves to be the leader more then him at this point.
He's more then just a glue guy or a role player and is miles ahead of guys like Korver or Reddick. I'm sorry but to say otherwise is rediculus.
On this team or on last year team? On last year team he was not the best player for sure. I don't believe we even had one. We had a lot of promise, mediocrity and fool's gold mixed up.
I've got no idea about this year's team but my money is on Kanter.
Hayward is obviously better than Korver or Reddick but he is not same tier as George either.
