Somewhere Harpring is Sad

[northeast]

They all may end up with better careers but to say they all show "more skills" than him is ludicrous. Harp was a very, very good player in his prime and plenty skilled. Moreso than any of the four young guys you mentioned at least.

Wes, that is because you think being nasty is a skill. I already clarified that, not surprised you don't understand.
Skills are thing like passing, running, jumping, shooting, dribbling, defense, court vision, decision making, etc.
harping had 2 skills , (10 he had an okay mid range jumper, and (2) he was a aggressive bully of a player that pushed and played nasty, fouled a lot, and helped perpetuate the team's reputation as a dirty team, something he continues to do to this day, something that hurts the team's ability to compete.

 

[Gameface]

You've convinced me, notheast, I no longer think the Jazz sign Harpring for another contract.

 

[northeast]

What are you 10yrs. old. Harp doesn't have the height, and didnt play the same position as Favors and Kanter. As far as Burks and Hayward go, they have a completely different style of play, as apposed to Harpring's style, which was as a banging punishing sf who did a lot of posting up and moving without the ball on the perimeter hitting the curl Jumper. Harpring in his prime was a very good player.

I agree with you, which is the point of what I was saying, as I was responding to someone else stating that Harpring was a better player than the 4 young guys on the Jazz because he averaged 17 and 7. Just because Harpring in his best year averaged more rebounds than Burks will as a rookie, or more points than what Kanter will as a rookie, this does not negate what i was saying.

 

[northeast]

I think you went berserk when Harp said that Jazz should foul more. I think he was saying is that the Jazz should play tough inside, not give up easy layups, and send message fouls if necessary. Harpring was a stud player and had a great career. I think you need to chill out on what broadcasters are saying.

HE SAYS THIS EVERY SINGLE FREAKING GAME. It is a stupid thing to say. He should stop saying it.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

the teams a reputation for being dirty kept 2 of the greatest players of all time at a disadvantage in the playoffs for their entire careers, hence the all time steals and assist leader , and 2nd leading all time scorer managed to play their entire careers without ONE SINGLE title.

The league is less friendly to dirty play than it used to be. the Jazz will NEVER HAVE A CHANCE of going far in the playoffs if they play like Harping wants them to play, and have the reputation Harpring wants them to have. There are no Bad Boy Pistons in the league now.

Well at least they made the finals two years in a row, too bad they played one of the best teams and player to ever play. How did the soft Jazz of the last 10 yrs. do with two soft as hell bigs (Boozer @ memo), and a pg that only played tough defense some of the time. They played the same style you seem to want the jazz to play. Boozer and Williams never got better then a 5 spot in the playoffs. In the 90's the Spurs were the jazz bitches. Williams and Boozer were the Spurs bitches! So I ask you, which team had mor success?

 

[SojoDave]

HE SAYS THIS EVERY SINGLE FREAKING GAME. It is a stupid thing to say. He should stop saying it.

He says it EVERY SINGLE FREAKING GAME BECAUSE IT'S TRUE!!!

 

[northeast]

Spurs did not intentionally foster a reputation for being a dirty team.
No team in the last 20 years has won a title while having a reputation for being a dirty team whose idea of good defense is to foul a lot , and foul harder than the other team.
They might do it, but they don't tell everyone that that is what they are doing, and that they are doing it on purpose.
I give up. Hopefully the Jazz coaches understand this. If they haven't figured it out by now, i give up.

 

[SojoDave]

Spurs did not intentionally foster a reputation for being a dirty team.
No team in the last 20 years has won a title while having a reputation for being a dirty team whose idea of good defense is to foul a lot , and foul harder than the other team.
They might do it, but they don't tell everyone that that is what they are doing, and that they are doing it on purpose.
I give up. Hopefully the Jazz coaches understand this. If they haven't figured it out by now, i give up.

Let me introduce you to the DETROIT PISTONS, Bulls, Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, etc.

 

[northeast]

I am familiar, none of them won a title in the last 20 years with a reputation as a team that played dirty. None of them had a coach or an announcer that equated getting called for a lot fouls with good defense.

 

[Headtrip]

 

[candrew]

The Harp defenders with the bad knees excuse forget one thing.

Harpring sucked on defense even before his knees went out.

 

[northeast]

They all may end up with better careers but to say they all show "more skills" than him is ludicrous. Harp was a very, very good player in his prime and plenty skilled. Moreso than any of the four young guys you mentioned at least.

Hayward , Kanter , and Favors are more skilled now as shot blockers than Harpring was in his prime.
Kanter and Favors are more skilled now as rebounders than Harpring was in his prime.
Burks and Hayward are better ball handlers and distributers now than Harpring was in his prime.
Hayward is a better shooter now than Harpring was in his prime.
Burks is a better scorer now than Harping was in his prime.
Hayward and Burks are probably about as good or better as perimeter defenders as Harping was in his prime.
For their size, they each bring more athleticism and a more diverse skill set to the table than Harping did.
Based on Harpring's obsession with fouling, they all now have a higher bball IQ than Harping.
Frankly , I think any one of them could score 17 points a game right now if they were the third option alongside a Stockton and Malone.

It is a shame that this good core group could be destined to having their future success undercut by playing with a team with a reputation for dirty play, and by playing for a team with a reputation for thinking that the way to stop other teams from scoring points is to foul them a lot. You will never get calls, you will never achieve your potential, if you have a rep for being a nasty dirty fouling team. You will never learn great defensive skills if your team thinks that fouling is a good way to get stops. Coaches should get this right. Harpring should find something else to talk about. Maybe listen to announcers for teams that win championships to get some ideas, whatever , that's not my job.

 

[footawn]

In related news, Dwight Howard is a better rebounder and shot blocker than Kobe.

 

[BYE]

I can't speak for Harpring (he was a good defender and had that attitude that you need for being a good defender), but the idea that you foul before giving up an easy basket is absolutely necessary to being a good defensive team. Al Jefferson does the exact opposite all the time. He allows teams to lay the ball in rather than attempting a block or making a hard foul on them (hence he had 1 foul the other night). Shaq would do this quite well and put fear into anyone that wanted to stroll in and leisurely lay the ball in. You protect your basket at all costs save intentionally trying to do real damage to a player, but you knock them on their butt if they think they can stroll in with ease. The theories about the Jazz losing because their reputation as being dirty is totally unprovable, and even though Malone and Stockton were fantastic players, Jordan is the best player by far I have ever seen, and I was around for much of Bird and Magic etc. That's enough to keep M & S from a title.

 

[northeast]

. The theories about the Jazz losing because their reputation as being dirty is totally unprovable.

The opposite is unproveable. Stockton and Malone played together for about 15 years, not just 2, , and were statistically two of the greatest players ever.

Are you saying that on close calls in the playoffs, you don't think a ref will give a slight edge to the team or player that everyone believes is less dirty, and tends to foul less?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

The opposite is unproveable. Stockton and Malone played together for about 15 years, not just 2, , and were statistically two of the greatest players ever.

Are you saying that on close calls in the playoffs, you don't think a ref will give a slight edge to the team or player that everyone believes is less dirty, and tends to foul less?

Now I know your 10 yrs. of age you couldn't have watched J@K play they always got star treatment from refs including the playoffs.

 

[northeast]

the idea that you foul before giving up an easy basket is absolutely necessary to being a good defensive team.

Harping talks about wanting the team to foul more and play more nasty, every game, in all kinds of situations. Is this really the most important defensive skill that the young players need to learn, to foul more, and be nastier? How about learning to get between your man and the basket, for starters?

 

[northeast]

Now I know your 10 yrs. of age you couldn't have watched J@K play they always got star treatment from refs including the playoffs.

Are you saying that on close calls in the playoffs, you don't think a ref will give a slight edge to the team or player that everyone believes is less dirty, and tends to foul less?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

The only reason the jazz never won a championship was because they had to beat the greatest player and winner the game has ever seen. No one could beat Jordan, he himself even said the Jazz of all the teams they played in the finals was the stiffest challenge the Bulls faced in there championship years.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Are you saying that on close calls in the playoffs, you don't think a ref will give a slight edge to the team or player that everyone believes is less dirty, and tends to foul less?

no!!