Stephen A Smith & Jalen Rose - Mitchell is ROY

[Ron Mexico]

1) I never said anyone said Simmons sucked. I hyperbolically said he sucked when you kept reading my posts wrong which proved you wrong saying Simmons disappears in the 4th. He was beyond solid in the forth last night and I provided you with facts that proved you either didn't watch the game or are a hater. You had to go back and edit your comment to address my response.
2) My first response to this thread was because people said he's overrated.
"I like Simmons, but stats canbe overrated."
3) Please read my comments for what they are and don't translate them to something they're not.

No, you did not prove he was beyond solid on the fourth or counter the stats provided. You did say he scored 6 points and got 2 boards in the fourth. You did not counter the fact that 1st quarters are his best quarter and 4th quarters are his worst, which is opposite Mitchell.

sarcastically pretended to be the opposition to your claim by saying that Simmons sucks. No one said Simmon's sucks. You tried to strengthen your argument by making a silly statement making fun of the opposing argument.

 

[Archie Moses]

No, you did not prove he was beyond solid on the fourth or counter the stats provided. You did say he scored 6 points and got 2 boards in the fourth. You did not counter the fact that 1st quarters are his best quarter and 4th quarters are his worst, which is opposite Mitchell.

sarcastically pretended to be the opposition to your claim by saying that Simmons sucks. No one said Simmon's sucks. You tried to strengthen your argument by making a silly statement making fun of the opposing argument.

You said he disappears in the fourth. Last night, he was put in with 8 minutes to go and played beyond solid with 6 points (one momentum swinging oop,) 2 defensive rebounds and a hard fought for offensive rebound. I'd have to go back and see what he did in the first, but looking at his stat line and watching the game I know the importance of his play last night. Did you watch the game by chance? I think it's pretty petty and unreasonable to expect more than what he did with under 8 to play, especially since he's a rookie. I love Mitchell and watching his progression, swag, leadership and not shying away from big moments. I don't get the homerism of saying Mitchell is miles better than Simmons. Why can't they both be incredible players? I mean, they are.

The only fair reason I think Simmons isn't ROY is because he's a redshirt rookie. Other than that, his stat line, importance to his team winning, play and versatility make a solid argument of why he's ROY just as much as Mitchell.

Sometimes, in life, it's not about this "or" that solely. It can be this "and" that.

 

[Archie Moses]

He's not even the best player on his team, could be in the top 25 to 30 players in the league tho. Cant be stuffed thinking about it too much i need some sleep have a big day of doing sweet FA ahead.

I'd take Simmons over Embid in a heartbeat. They're both great though. Simmons is just more of a freak of nature and versatile imo. I would assume it's certainly split down the middle with who the fan base and NBA fans think is better too.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You said he disappears in the fourth. Last night, he was put in with 8 minutes to go and played beyond solid with 6 points (one momentum swinging oop,) 2 defensive rebounds and a hard fought for offensive rebound. I'd have to go back and see what he did in the first, but looking at his stat line and watching the game I know the importance of his play last night. Did you watch the game by chance? I think it's pretty petty and unreasonable to expect more than what he did with under 8 to play, especially since he's a rookie. I love Mitchell and watching his progression, swag, leadership and not shying away from big moments. I don't get the homerism of saying Mitchell is miles better than Simmons. Why can't they both be incredible players? I mean, they are.

The only fair reason I think Simmons isn't ROY is because he's a redshirt rookie. Other than that, his stat line, importance to his team winning, play and versatility make a solid argument of why he's ROY just as much as Mitchell.

Sometimes, in life, it's not about this "or" that solely. It can be this "and" that.

He also disappeared (like most games) in the crunch minutes of that game, when things got tight the only thing he did is cough up the ball twice in the last few minutes but like normal his team bailed him out. He had two big turnovers in the final minutes. I posted what he did in the first quarter of that game, that was the post you replied to.

When the games matter, Simmons disappears and Mitchell rises up. Stats back that up.

No one is saying Mitchell is better than Simmons by a mile, no one is saying they are both not great. Again you are making up arguments.

You are also focusing on this 1 game, when I was pointing to his season stats and linked to those.

Simmons has a solid argument for ROY of the year. But so does Mitchell and I think Mitchell does more to help his team win. Especially since Mitchell has got better since the season has gone on, Simmons has got worse. Mitchell gets better in the 4th, Simmons gets worse. Those are big factors for me.

Simmons averages this game were sub par for a normal Mitchell 4th.

But I know you like to be a contrarian. Also of course someone on the Jazz message board is a homer for their player.

 

[Archie Moses]

I think you need to reread the thread, dude. You keep pointing out things I never said or putting words in my mouth.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

He’s going to creep up over 20 pts per game and get awfully close to 20/4/4... I think the rest will be predicated on team success.

We miss the playoffs and it’s a no... make it as a 6 seed then yes... 7/8 maybe?

Also if Embiid misses time Bens numbers will go to crap. His TS% without Joel is like 10% lower. I also think his scoring is trending the wrong way... defenses can load up the paint and neuter him a bit.

Will be a close race... both guys well deserving so far.

What if we miss the playoffs but finish with a winning record

 

[Ron Mexico]

I'd take Simmons over Embid in a heartbeat. They're both great though. Simmons is just more of a freak of nature and versatile imo. I would assume it's certainly split down the middle with who the fan base and NBA fans think is better too.

I think the only reason someone wouldnt take Embiid over Simmons is concerns about his health. Simmons only surpasses what Embiid has already done this season if he becomes a reliable shooter.

Ill take the uber athletic 7'0 big man that can handle the ball and shoot as the more versatile freak of nature. Embiid is more physically dominate than Simmons. Simmons is a better ball handler with good vision.

Besides he was talking about this season. There is no argument that Simmons is currently better than Embiid. Maybe in the future but not this year.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I think you need to reread the thread, dude. You keep pointing out things I never said or putting words in my mouth.

Like what?

 

[Archie Moses]

Like what?

For starters, you saying that I said people were saying Simmons sucked. - I didn't.
You said people never said Simmons was overrated. - They did.
You said I'm hating on Mitchell. I haven't hated on Mitchell to the slightest degree in this thread.

 

[Ron Mexico]

For starters, you saying that I said people were saying Simmons sucked. - I didn't.
You said people never said Simmons was overrated. - They did.
You said I'm hating on Mitchell. I haven't hated on Mitchell to the slightest degree in this thread.

You sarcastically pretended to be an opponent of your stance and stated he sucked and was overrated. You threw it out there as claiming the other side won you over. Clearly you are trying to imply that is what people were saying.

Ok, Simmons is awful and so overrated. He blew tonight in the fourth. Only Mitchell deserves praise.

I never said no one claimed Simmons was over rated. I said no one claimed he sucked, was awful or that Mitchell is better than Simmons by a mile like you are claiming.

 

[Archie Moses]

You sarcastically pretended to be an opponent of your stance and stated he sucked and was overrated. You threw it out there as claiming the other side won you over. Clearly you are trying to imply that is what people were saying.


I never said no one claimed Simmons was over rated. I said no one claimed he sucked, was awful or that Mitchell is better than Simmons by a mile like you are claiming.

Again, go back and reread the thread. Especially without your edit. You basically said Simmons did nothing in the last two minutes of the game and disappears in the fourth. I provided the play-by-play link and broke down what he did the last 8 minutes of the game, which was far from disappearing and was actually pretty impressive to which you responded:

No, his 1st quarter is his best. Im not sure where you are getting that 6 points in the final 7 minutes stat from but these are his splits on NBA.com. He gets the most points, rebounds and assists in the 1st quarter. 4.6 points (also his best shooting quarter), 2.3 assists, and 2.1 rebounds.


The opposite is true of Mitchell. His best quarter is the 4th. He gets 6.6 points (on his best shooting of the game 47.1%), 1.0 rebound and 0.8 assists.

At that point, I was done arguing with you so I hyperbolically replied with a smartass response of OK Simmons sucks. Basically, you weren't having what I was saying about his fourth quarter performance from last night.

Yes, you went back and edited your post. I replied before you did it.

Simmons did not suck last night. Yes, he had two turnovers in the final 8 minutes, but he was solid down the stretch and certainly helped his team to win. Arguing that, to me, basically means you either didn't watch the game or you're hyper critical of Simmons.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Again, go back and reread the thread. Especially without your edit. You basically said Simmons did nothing in the last two minutes of the game and disappears in the fourth. I provided the play-by-play link and broke down what he did the last 8 minutes of the game, which was far from disappearing and was actually pretty impressive to which you responded:

He did do nothing in the last 2 minutes except 2 turnovers. You did not dispute that.

I claimed he disappeared in 4th quarters this season, you have also not disputed that at all. Saying in one game he scored 6 points half way through the 4th before disappearing in the final minutes does not dispute that.

Yes, you went back and edited your post. I replied before you did it.

I did edit it because I did not understand what you were claiming. I adjusted it at that point. But that was within seconds of posting it.

 

[Archie Moses]

I never said no one claimed Simmons was over rated. I said no one claimed he sucked, was awful or that Mitchell is better than Simmons by a mile like you are claiming.

Says the guy who claims people are saying Simmons sucks and is overrated who think Mitchell is better.

Either your reading or your memory is poor, which one is it?

 

[Ron Mexico]

Either your reading or your memory is poor, which one is it?

So you didnt claim that?


No where in there does it say that no one claimed Simmons is over rated.

 

[Archie Moses]

He did do nothing in the last 2 minutes except 2 turnovers. You did not dispute that.

I claimed he disappeared in 4th quarters this season, you have also not disputed that at all. Saying in one game he scored 6 points half way through the 4th before disappearing in the final minutes does not dispute that.

1. I did not dispute this because of the direction of the conversation (go read the thread, dude.) Yes, he had two turnovers in the last two minutes. Disputing that would be as silly as saying he didn't do anything in the fourth and disappeared.

2. I've been specially talking about his performance last night. I haven't disputed your claim of him disappearing during the fourth quarter all season because I wasn't talking about the season and I haven't researched this claim.

Basically, after watching the Philly game last night, your comment bugged me. Simmons was very instrumental in that win, especially his play in the fourth - even with the two turnovers.

 

[Ron Mexico]

1. I did not dispute this because of the direction of the conversation (go read the thread, dude.) Yes, he had two turnovers in the last two minutes. Disputing that would be as silly as saying he didn't do anything in the fourth and disappeared.

2. I've been specially talking about his performance last night. I haven't disputed your claim of him disappearing during the fourth quarter all season because I wasn't talking about the season and I haven't researched this claim.

Basically, after watching the Philly game last night, your comment bugged me. Simmons was very instrumental in that win, especially his play in the fourth - even with the two turnovers.

It sounds like you misinterpreted what I was claiming. I claimed he did nothing in the last 2 minutes of that game and that this season he disappears in the 4th. Those last 2 minutes he shrunk and almost cost his team the game. That is a common theme with him in the 4th. Maybe he helped his team keep it close until then, but that was never my argument.

 

[Archie Moses]

So you didnt claim that?


No where in there does it say that no one claimed Simmons is over rated.

Yes, yes it does.

Dude, your posts are making my head hurt.

 

[fishonjazz]

I gave him a breakdown of how good Simmons was in the fourth and he still argued it.

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I think his argument was based on the last 2 minutes rather than the 4th quarter.

Also, utahjazzz is a guaranteed 100% bonafied troll.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Yes, yes it does.

Dude, your posts are making my head hurt.

Sorry I leave you to asking if people are women if you they claim something you didn't say.

Your arguments are hard to follow so I definitely got lost with your claims.

 

[Douchebag K]

can you two just shag and get it over with ??