The story behind the Utah Jazz’s front-office shake-up, and why it happened now

[Elizah Huge]

Really really really hope Mike wants to stay here. I wonder what we’d do to pivot if he leaves though.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Really really really hope Mike wants to stay here. I wonder what we’d do to pivot if he leaves though.

We'd need to clear some salary to have any meaningful tools in FA. If you could clear the MLE you'd have a shot at landing Cam Payne... though a team like Dallas/NY may offer him slightly more than that to come there.

The deal I keep suggesting of Favs and #30 for Wright and #39 is one I'd do even if Mike stays... I think it gives some optionality and would be a solid insurance policy if Mike walks. I have no idea if Sacramento would do it or if its fair of course... just guessing that they'd be a team that needs a center and maybe there is a guy they like at #30 that they think won't be there at #39.

 

[cowhide]

That's why we should've moved DL last year. He clearly lost it. Tony Jones kinda said it in his podcast that it wasn't even Quin who was fed up, it was Ryan Smith who wanted him out personally. But losing this season really hurts, since we might not get another legit shot at a championship with DM/Rudy again.

I do not think the window is closed just yet. It would help if the Jazz could move Favors contract. I think Udoka can replicate what Favors brings and even

 

[Elizah Huge]

We'd need to clear some salary to have any meaningful tools in FA. If you could clear the MLE you'd have a shot at landing Cam Payne... though a team like Dallas/NY may offer him slightly more than that to come there.

The deal I keep suggesting of Favs and #30 for Wright and #39 is one I'd do even if Mike stays... I think it gives some optionality and would be a solid insurance policy if Mike walks. I have no idea if Sacramento would do it or if its fair of course... just guessing that they'd be a team that needs a center and maybe there is a guy they like at #30 that they think won't be there at #39.

Losing Conley/Favors but gaining the MLE isn’t going to make us better is it? Who are some realistic targets with the MLE?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I do not think the window is closed just yet. It would help if the Jazz could move Favors contract. I think Udoka can replicate what Favors brings and even

I agree... although... we will never get an opportunity this wide open.

 

[homeytennis]

I think these guys just sucked as a matter of fact. When you are truly a great player, your fate can't be decided by anyone. PJ Tucker was buried on the bench in his rookie season with Toronto so he had to leave for Europe to make a living. But he played so well that he came back a few years later and established himself in the league as one of the best role players around.

I mean guys like Nate Wolters and Eric Griffin left the league years ago, if they are good why haven't they made the come back yet?

In many ways of professional sports, it's either you are the guy or you are not. Can't always put the blame on the development team when the guys they've been working with just aren't good enough players. These guys were late second or undrafted for a reason.

Like I mentioned before, Suns have like 7 or 8 former lottery picks on their roster right now. These guys even in the worst case scenario of their development could give you decent backup minutes, which would've been the best case scenario for guys like Nate Wolters, Eric Griffin, Erick McCree, Naz, Cavanaugh, JWF, Willie Reed and Isiah Cousins, etc.

I see your point, but one of the things the bench needs to do is not be a greasefire when they are playing. Either they tread water or outscore the other's bench a little and be pleasant to have around. You can have an uber talented bench that eventually erupts into flames because of all the alpha personalities. The year after Stockton and Malone left, Sloan got a bunch of rag tag players and came within a game of making the playoffs. The secret was they played hard, played decent D, boxed out and knocked down shots when left open. Where is Ben Handlogten when we need him?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Losing Conley/Favors but gaining the MLE isn’t going to make us better is it? Who are some realistic targets with the MLE?

Oh I agree. That's why you have to keep Mike and hope he gets healthy. Then work on Favs deals that maybe improve us... use the mini-MLE to get something helpful. Hope Udoka doesn't suck or that you strike gold in the draft.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Where is Ben Handlogten when we need him?

That guy is a hero.

 

[Doc Cherno]

I'm going to take the apparently widely unpopular view that the Udoka pick will pan out. He was a very late first round pick and obviously needs some seasoning, but I think in 2 years he'll be coming off the bench as Rudy-lite. That's probably his ceiling, but if he meets his ceiling and sticks around a few years I don' think that's a bad pick at that spot.

 

[cowhide]

I agree... although... we will never get an opportunity this wide open.

I don't know the league has a lot of parity now. It isn't like in the past when there were only about 3 or 4 teams who were real contenders. I certainly believe it will be harder if the Jazz stay the same and lose Conley. The Jazz did not get lucky and stay healthy. Phoenix is in the finals because they are talented but also the fact that CP3's injury only lasted a couple games. The Suns beat the Lakers, Clippers and Denver, each of those teams had a major injury that kept them out of the series. Not saying that the Suns wouldn't have won still but it would have been harder. They got lucky/ That is what was missing with the Jazz. Jazz need to add REAL depth, get healthy and then get a little luck on their side.

 

[latin jazz]

A couple of things have bubbled up in the past couple of days. I saw a blurb where former two-way player Tyler Cavanaugh signed a deal in Eastern Europe and the coach there is Martin Schiller who was his coach with the Stars. The guy shot 41% from 3 with the Stars and his coach there lobbied to sign him. I know it's not the NBA but the Minivan is the only success right now from the two way deals and that was after the Pacers and Warriors waived him. Also JWF was named player of the week in whatever league he is playing in. The point I'm trying to make is that the Jazz "player development" program with the Stars is a sham. Anyone signing a two way with the Jazz was signing his death warrant. If I were Forrest and Brantley I would be very nervous right now. They are looking at the headstones of Nate Wolters, Eric Griffin, Erick McCree, Naz, Cavanaugh, JWF, Willie Reed and Isiah Cousins. Who decided these guys sucked? Was it DL, Quin or a combination? Running the organization like this leaves little hope for guys playing for the Stars. Would any of the guys mentioned been any worse than our deep bench? I doubt it.

I'm curious. Do you have a spreadsheet with former Jazz scrubs? Do you do a weekly google search for each one of those?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm going to take the apparently widely unpopular view that the Udoka pick will pan out. He was a very late first round pick and obviously needs some seasoning, but I think in 2 years he'll be coming off the bench as Rudy-lite. That's probably his ceiling, but if he meets his ceiling and sticks around a few years I don' think that's a bad pick at that spot.

So you invest 3 years, a first round pick, and the roster spot for 3 years... so you can get a good backup center? When there are good backup center readily available?

Its not necessarily just Udoka... its the whole situation. Say we didn't sign Favs and drafted Udoka... okay then we get a backup center for a couple years and chance to see if maybe he's more than that.

I think Udoka could be similar to Capela if he reaches his ceiling. That's a good player... but if you have Rudy you aren't going to maximize that guy/pick. Its the combo of giving Rudy the megamax, giving Favs the full MLE for three years, and drafting Doke that makes no damn sense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't know the league has a lot of parity now. There are not like 3 or 4 teams who are in contention. I certainly believe it will be harder if the Jazz stay the same and lose Conley. The Jazz did not get lucky and stay healthy. Phoenix is in the final because CP injury only lasted a couple games. The Suns beat the Lakers, CLippers and Denver, each of those teams had a major injury that kept them out of the series. Not saying that the Suns wouldn't have won still but it would have been harder. They got lucky/ That is what was missing with the Jazz. Jazz need to add REAL depth, get healthy and then get a little luck on their side.

This might be true. I just think if the Nets or Lakers are healthy next year then the super duper stars win out again. Denver and other contenders got side swiped too. Maybe we survive if we built critical depth... maybe the injuries still derail us.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Oh I agree. That's why you have to keep Mike and hope he gets healthy. Then work on Favs deals that maybe improve us... use the mini-MLE to get something helpful. Hope Udoka doesn't suck or that you strike gold in the draft.

One name not being thrown around as a potential PG replacement is Kyle Lowry. I really have no idea what his contract would be looking like though.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

One name not being thrown around as a potential PG replacement is Kyle Lowry. I really have no idea what his contract would be looking like though.

We have no way to get him. Can't do a sign and trade because we are over the apron. Nothing we have and can part with is likely good enough for Toronto... he'd also have to force his way here and bypass Toronto, Miami, and Dallas to do so. He's not an option unfortunately.

If Conley walks you are looking at what you can get for the MLE or strapping some salary together for someone who looks washed but you hope they come back to life.

 

[homeytennis]

I'm curious. Do you have a spreadsheet with former Jazz scrubs? Do you do a weekly google search for each one of those?

There is a website Proexposure that covers D-1, GLeague, overseas leagues and the NBA. If a players does something exceptional it bubbles up on that site. NWG was a frequent flier after the Jazz cut him.

 

[Elizah Huge]

We have no way to get him. Can't do a sign and trade because we are over the apron. Nothing we have and can part with is likely good enough for Toronto... he'd also have to force his way here and bypass Toronto, Miami, and Dallas to do so. He's not an option unfortunately.

If Conley walks you are looking at what you can get for the MLE or strapping some salary together for someone who looks washed but you hope they come back to life.

We aren’t over the apron though. The apron will be around 140.6M.

Without Conley we are right at 136M. Theoretically we could move Favors and 30 to get him as long as his salary was under 14.3M year. I know he’d have to want to be here and maybe Toronto takes the first round pick.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

There is a website Proexposure that covers D-1, GLeague, overseas leagues and the NBA. If a players does something exceptional it bubbles up on that site. NWG was a frequent flier after the Jazz cut him.

Your secrets have been revealed.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I'm going to take the apparently widely unpopular view that the Udoka pick will pan out. He was a very late first round pick and obviously needs some seasoning, but I think in 2 years he'll be coming off the bench as Rudy-lite. That's probably his ceiling, but if he meets his ceiling and sticks around a few years I don' think that's a bad pick at that spot.

Can someone pull Dok's advanced stats for his limited time on the floor, but against other team's end of bench players?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We aren’t over the apron though. The apron will be around 140.6M.

Without Conley we are right at 136M. Theoretically we could move Favors and 30 to get him as long as his salary was under 14.3M year. I know he’d have to want to be here and maybe Toronto takes the first round pick.

You still have to fill out the rest of the roster and end up under the apron... so you are looking at ditching Favs and Clarkson for zero salary if you bring in Kyle.

So maybe Toronto says JC/Favs/#30 for Lowry... but Kyle will also likely get more than $15M... he will cost more than Mike imo. I'd guess he is $20M plus.