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The War On Christmas Just Got REAL!

dalamon said:
That's the implication it leaves, and it's the third time in the past 2 months that something along those lines has been mentioned by yourself. Really comes across as a way to belittle my points without actually disputing the content of my posts.
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Except I've been talking about the content of your posts while you skirt around the edges of mine. You knew exactly what I meant, you're just trying to avoid the actual discussion. I'll leave you with the question I asked in my previous post. Please answer it.
 
Howard said:
I never said they all do, never even implied it. I just said I was a member of that group and said I hadn't seen people from my group make a big deal out of it, leading to the credence that it is a minority movement. If it was anything but, don't you think maybe I would be one of the first people to hear about it? And maybe I wouldn't.

Where is your proof that it's anything more than a minority movement Dala, and if it isn't a minority movement, what is it? Put a name on it, please.
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I feel no desire to continue this pissing contest. The advisors of a leading presidential campaign aren't going to tell their candidate to say remarks to pander to voters that could cost him millions, if it's only for an "extreme minority" (your words). End of discussion. If you disagree, that's your prerogative.
 
Howard, weather or not you care about the starbucks cups, does it make you think less of Trump because he's standing up for the notion that this is a Christian nation and that we follow Christian customs and live by Christian values?
 
Gameface said:
Howard, weather or not you care about the starbucks cups, does it make you think less of Trump because he's standing up for the notion that this is a Christian nation and that we follow Christian customs and live by Christian values?
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I know the question wasn't directed at me, but, no, it doesn't make me think less of him - but only because I already think so little of him. This ISN'T a Christian nation. A majority Christian nation (demographically), sure, but not SOLELY a Christian nation. Great Britain, for example, is a Christian nation, in that the Church of England is the official religion thereof, and the Queen actually holds the title of "Supreme Governor of the Church of England."
 
dalamon said:
I feel no desire to continue this pissing contest. The advisors of a leading presidential campaign aren't going to tell their candidate to say remarks to pander to voters that could cost him millions, if it's only for an "extreme minority" (your words). End of discussion. If you disagree, that's your prerogative.
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One of the reasons that Trump has appealed to people is that it's obvious he will say what's on his mind, no matter what it is. That's how he got away with his comments about McCain, for instance. His base is willing to forgive him because they admire his willingness to speak without a filter. Apparently it taps into their anger somehow. (It does not have the same effect on me, BTW.)

I would not be at all surprised if Trump's advisers were as surprised as anybody when these comments came flying out of his mouth. Also, I'll bet that Trump's advisers are basically yes men who rarely if ever try to get him to (let alone cause him to) alter his course. I saw a couple episodes of The Apprentice and one of the things that struck me most was the way his assistants licked his boots every time he made a decision (particularly when he decided who to fire). No matter what his decision was, and no matter whether they appeared to agree with it given everything that came before, they always agreed with him that firing this particular person was the right thing to do.
 
Gameface said:
Howard, weather or not you care about the starbucks cups, does it make you think less of Trump because he's standing up for the notion that this is a Christian nation and that we follow Christian customs and live by Christian values?
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I'm not sure I understand what you're saying? The Starbucks cups never had a religious meaning behind them, so I don't think doing this is really sticking up for Christians. It's politicizing a stupid event. If I misunderstood lemme know though, cause I'm not sure I'm following well.
 
Gameface said:
Howard, weather or not you care about the starbucks cups, does it make you think less of Trump because he's standing up for the notion that this is a Christian nation and that we follow Christian customs and live by Christian values?
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....but there is absolutely nothing "Christian" about Christmas, from the date, to the tree, to the exchanging of gifts, to Rudolph's red nose and eggnog! It reeks of paganism and pagan customs! It is, infact, anti-Christian as it promotes everything Jesus himself warned against and shunned!
 
dalamon said:
keep looking through those rose-tinted glasses. I have never heard of a leading politician tryign to win votes by pandering to extreme minorities.
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I never heard of a major candidate trying to win votes by asking the voters just how stupid they are. That was a first for me.....
 
carolinajazz said:
....but there is absolutely nothing "Christian" about Christmas, from the date, to the tree, to the exchanging of gifts, to Rudolph's red nose and eggnog! It reeks of paganism and pagan customs! It is, infact, anti-Christian as it promotes everything Jesus himself warned against and shunned!
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Most every culture has rituals that punctuate the calendar year. We have Christmas, an approximately 60 day feeding frenzy of conspicuous consumption at America's malls. Highlighted by Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Each of those two days denoting the fact that this shopping frenzy ritual is all about the economy. Each year, (and the emphasis on engaging in this ritualistic frenzy grows a bit longer, we can expect the adds to start immediately following Halloween, another of our older rituals), we engage in this frenzied(I guess I like that word, lol) ritual. Abstain, and we hurt the economy. The Christmas season is all about $$$. The focus long since shifted to the exchange of gifts. To achieve that crowning moment on Christmas morn requires that we plunge right in and get that $$$ flowing.

The image that best describes this annual cultural ritual? Shoppers trampling over each other as they rush the isles the second Black Friday commences. Trample, fight, beat each other over the head for the toy their kid insists, and ad men ensure,that he/she wants more then anything else this year. Yep, hoards of shoppers suckered in by this annual commercial ritual. That's the Christmas season as we've made it. December 25th? Oh, that's the day before the mad rush to return/exchange all those gifts. An important date during the ritualistic Christmas season. But, let's get real here. Dec. 25th pales in importance to Black Friday and Cyber Monday....
 
dalamon said:
keep looking through those rose-tinted glasses. I have never heard of a leading politician tryign to win votes by pandering to extreme minorities.
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Well, Republicans usually appeal to their base. So that that base comes out in force during primaries.
But, so often, that means the candidates must support minority ideas that fail them miserably once the general election is at hand. This has hurt the Republicans time and time again. During the primary season, they may come out with some reasonably nutty positions, which their Democratic opponent is going to make sure they own once the general election is upon us. Right now, The Donald appeals to fear. I see him as a classic demagogue.....
 
Red said:
Most every culture has rituals that punctuate the calendar year. We have Christmas, an approximately 60 day feeding frenzy of conspicuous consumption at America's malls. Highlighted by Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Each of those two days denoting the fact that this shopping frenzy ritual is all about the economy. Each year, (and the emphasis on engaging in this ritualistic frenzy grows a bit longer, we can expect the adds to start immediately following Halloween, another of our older rituals), we engage in this frenzied(I guess I like that word, lol) ritual. Abstain, and we hurt the economy. The Christmas season is all about $$$. The focus long since shifted to the exchange of gifts. To achieve that crowning moment on Christmas morn requires that we plunge right in and get that $$$ flowing.

The image that best describes this annual cultural ritual? Shoppers trampling over each other as they rush the isles the second Black Friday commences. Trample, fight, beat each other over the head for the toy their kid insists, and ad men ensure,that he/she wants more then anything else this year. Yep, hoards of shoppers suckered in by this annual commercial ritual. That's the Christmas season as we've made it. December 25th? Oh, that's the day before the mad rush to return/exchange all those gifts. An important date during the ritualistic Christmas season. But, let's get real here. Dec. 25th pales in importance to Black Friday and Cyber Monday....
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Nicely put, Red! And I'll add this tid bit: Illustration: Suppose a crowd come to a gentleman’s home saying they are there to celebrate his birthday. He does not favor the celebration of birthdays. He does not like to see people overeat or get drunk or engage in loose conduct. But some of them do all those things, and they bring presents for everyone there except him! On top of all that, they pick the birthday of one of the man’s enemies as the date for the celebration. How would the man feel? Would you want to be a party to it? This is exactly what is being done by Christmas celebrations.
 
carolinajazz said:
....but there is absolutely nothing "Christian" about Christmas, from the date, to the tree, to the exchanging of gifts, to Rudolph's red nose and eggnog! It reeks of paganism and pagan customs! It is, infact, anti-Christian as it promotes everything Jesus himself warned against and shunned!
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CJ, I think your "authentic" Christianity is just as made up as anyone else's. These distinctions matter so incredibly little to me.

Christianity is a culture in the nation I live in. That's what we're talking about here. Not whose actually following the wishes of an imaginary sky daddy better.
 
Howard said:
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying? The Starbucks cups never had a religious meaning behind them, so I don't think doing this is really sticking up for Christians. It's politicizing a stupid event. If I misunderstood lemme know though, cause I'm not sure I'm following well.
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When Trump talks about saying "Merry Christmas" he's showing his support for Christianity in the U.S. as the dominant cultural force. And expressing his desire assert that dominance in the face of people who want to live in a more secular nation.

Does his support of the U.S. as a Christian nation make you like him less?

If the answer is no, then he's talking directly to you when he gets upset about the Starbucks cups, even though to you, and to him and to any human with a brain, the cups don't matter. It's not about the cups, Haward. So please, don't try to make it about the cups again. Just answer the question. Does his statement make you like him less?
 
Gameface said:
When Trump talks about saying "Merry Christmas" he's showing his support for Christianity in the U.S. as the dominant cultural force. And expressing his desire assert that dominance in the face of people who want to live in a more secular nation.

Does his support of the U.S. as a Christian nation make you like him less?

If the answer is no, then he's talking directly to you when he gets upset about the Starbucks cups, even though to you, and to him and to any human with a brain, the cups don't matter. It's not about the cups, Haward. So please, don't try to make it about the cups again. Just answer the question. Does his statement make you like him less?
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Does his statement about the cups make me like him less? It doesn't make me feel anything really, I never liked him to begin with and I thought it was a stupid comment, so sure, I guess I like him less if you add those together. I really don't care though.

As for the rest of what you said, I don't feel like saying "Merry Christmas" makes us a Christian nation. It's a phrase that people can get behind, but is there really any meaning behind it? I mean shoot, isn't it like 80% or so of people say they're a Christian, but less than 15% of them have ever actually read the Bible? It's something like that. Christianity is popular because people want to fit in, but I certainly don't think the majority of people in this country are Christians. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of Christmas, but I don't really care what people do.
 
Howard said:
Does his statement about the cups make me like him less? It doesn't make me feel anything really, I never liked him to begin with and I thought it was a stupid comment, so sure, I guess I like him less if you add those together. I really don't care though.

As for the rest of what you said, I don't feel like saying "Merry Christmas" makes us a Christian nation. It's a phrase that people can get behind, but is there really any meaning behind it? I mean shoot, isn't it like 80% or so of people say they're a Christian, but less than 15% of them have ever actually read the Bible? It's something like that. Christianity is popular because people want to fit in, but I certainly don't think the majority of people in this country are Christians. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of Christmas, but I don't really care what people do.
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Okay, fair enough.
 
Gameface said:
CJ, I think your "authentic" Christianity is just as made up as anyone else's. These distinctions matter so incredibly little to me.

Christianity is a culture in the nation I live in. That's what we're talking about here. Not whose actually following the wishes of an imaginary sky daddy better.
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So what your really implying is that there is no such thing as "true or false" or "right and wrong?"
 
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