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Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?

So then Utah should also be in the #1 spot in "looking for revenue sources to fund education."

Money is the whole problem. We're among the last in the nation (and maybe even dead last) in education spending. Either we stop having so many kids or we spend more. Those are the only 2 solutions.

I was serious when I said that a lot of schools don't have air conditioners because they can't afford it. And this is in The Canyons school district, good neighborhoods. It's a money issue.

That is horribly false. Bad teachers, uninvolved parents, not properly using technology, political interference in education...all of these clearly contribute to the problem of our education.

Money alone is not the answer.
 
That is horribly false. Bad teachers, uninvolved parents, not properly using technology, political interference in education...all of these clearly contribute to the problem of our education.

Money alone is not the answer.

Not a single one of the things you listed would put air conditioners in the schools.

Nice job listing general talking points. But in the real world you don't get air conditioners installed without writing a check.

Utah is among the lowest spending in the nation when it comes to education. Yes, we're taxed the most, but our dollars are already stretched thinner than just about any other state. We need more money into the system, and it clearly should not come from even higher taxes.
 
Not a single one of the things you listed would put air conditioners in the schools.

Nice job listing general talking points. But in the real world you don't get air conditioners installed without writing a check.

Utah is among the lowest spending in the nation when it comes to education. Yes, we're taxed the most, but our dollars are already stretched thinner than just about any other state. We need more money into the system, and it clearly should not come from even higher taxes.

And air conditioners will not suddenly fix the education system either. I am sorry that I chose to look at the broad problem and not one specific maintanence fix. God forbid we have a broad view.

Also no **** about money being needed. I already agreed with you on that so stop harping. You sound like a damn parrot. Same thing over and over.
 
That is eaxclty the stats I was looking for. Links?

No. I looked, but only found articles that listed us as spending dead last per student. Nothin about the per taxpayer...on that I'm going off something I heard a few years ago. I'll keep looking.
 
And air conditioners will not suddenly fix the education system either. I am sorry that I chose to look at the broad problem and not one specific maintanence fix. God forbid we have a broad view.

Also no **** about money being needed. I already agreed with you on that so stop harping. You sound like a damn parrot. Same thing over and over.

What broad problem are you trying to fix? You sound like someone who has no idea what he's talking about but you have your political talking points lined up.

Air conditioners are only 1 thing I listed. There is also asbestos in a lot of the schools, and many aren't earthquake safe either.

Utah isn't riddled with a bunch of bad teachers and waste of money. On the contrary, Utah is getting great results for how little is spent per student. If we want to improve it, we have to spend more. Period. That IS the problem right now. The dollars are already stretched too thin.

My bad for listing specific problems instead of unrelated general political talking points.
 
Here's something:

https://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=328

Utah’s Education Paradox
October 1, 2004
Utah’s education financing has long been considered an anomaly. A November 1999 Utah Foundation research report, entitled “Utah’s Education Paradox,” included two statistics that were seemingly at odds with each other. It reported that:
  • Utah spent more of its money on public education than most other states. In terms of spending as a percentage of all state and local government spending, it ranked 3rd in the nation, while in terms of spending as a percentage of personal income, it ranked 2nd.
  • Utah spent less money on each child’s education than any other state in the nation. Also, Utah’s average class size has been larger than any other state’s.
Utah’s Education Paradox is that even though Utah spends a higher percentage of its budget on education than most other states, it still spends less per student.
 
Not a single one of the things you listed would put air conditioners in the schools.

Nice job listing general talking points. But in the real world you don't get air conditioners installed without writing a check.

Utah is among the lowest spending in the nation when it comes to education. Yes, we're taxed the most, but our dollars are already stretched thinner than just about any other state. We need more money into the system, and it clearly should not come from even higher taxes.

I think I have a crazy out of the box solution to the air conditioner problem...Close the schools during the hottest months of the year, we'll call it a summer break. It's crazy, but it just might work.
 
I think I have a crazy out of the box solution to the air conditioner problem...Close the schools during the hottest months of the year, we'll call it a summer break. It's crazy, but it just might work.

So in August when it's 80 and 90 degrees out, we'll cancel school? In April, May, and June, when it's 75, 80, and 90 degrees, we'll cancel school?

Call me crazy, but when it's 75 degrees outside, a school with 800+ people inside is usually much warmer than the standard room temperature of 72 degrees.
 
So in August when it's 80 and 90 degrees out, we'll cancel school? In April, May, and June, when it's 75, 80, and 90 degrees, we'll cancel school?

Call me crazy, but when it's 75 degrees outside, a school with 800+ people inside is usually much warmer than the standard room temperature of 72 degrees.

The school calander is nothing new. How have we been able to do it all these years without AC? I guess they just don't make kids like they used to.
 
The fact that the educational system is ****. It is not that hard to figure out really.

You are impossible to have a conversation with because you are a condescending jackass. Welcome to an exclusive list you twit.
 
You're not going to put sure conditioners in the schools without paying somebody to do it. At some point, money IS the solution.

Utah is not "on top." Utah is doing better than some of those states, and not as good as others.

Not true. When a Utahn (or anyone else) runs the lottery, the state takes federal and state income taxes out before they even pay the winnings. The state takes their piece off the top, before the winner ever brings a dime back to Utah.



No, I'm just saying your arguments against the lottery are mostly moot because Utahns are legally playing it right now. They're just giving all the benefits to other states, while accepting all the negatives.


Are you practicing for your spot on MSNBC where you do your best to miss the picture while scoring juvenile news hit points?

Look, I don't have a dog in this race. I wouldn't even go as far as Jazzman12 did by looking at the effects on society. If you want a lottery then have a damn lottery, what do I care? The only thing I ask is if you're going to come up with solutions to some newfound social problems caused by the lottery then have the money come from the lottery. That way I don't have to support the Retrain John The Plumber Because He Lost Everything Buying Lottery Tickets Fund if I don't want to. Those who want to support the cause can buy lottos or give directly to the fund.

Trout asked for the positives AND negatives and I'm giving the opposing argument to the uneducated redneck notion that not having a lottery is automatically a deficit to Utah's economy, and to this nonsense that having one elsewhere does not have negative economic impacts as well as positive. Anyone (like you) who says otherwise is cluelessly spouting out their *** and has their mind made up before and regardless of what the facts are. Economies don't exist in a vacuum and analyzing something as complex as this must take in both sides of the equation. I don't see why you wear it as a badge of honor to foolishly look at one side only while cramming your head as deep inside a procession of 12 mule asses as you can to avoid the other.

Or I could put it in Salty terms by saying we should legalize underage prostitution because they have it in Sri Lanka and people are going there because it's illegal here and we're losing money because of it. Yeah.
 
The school calander is nothing new. How have we been able to do it all these years without AC? I guess they just don't make kids like they used to.
The school calendar may not be new, but the number of kids crammed in that building is something that keeps growing and growing.

And to say that they did it 100 years ago so we should do it today is pretty foolish. As time moves forward, things improve. For example, they didn't have computers generating heat when the school was built. They didn't have a TV in every classroom for videos which also generate heat.

We'll see if your tune changes when you have kids old enough where this affects you. Let your house get 80 or 85 degrees one day and see if you think it's okay. And then understand that a whole lot of our schools are at that temperature for most of April, almost all of May, all of June, all of August, and a good portion of September.
 
Are you practicing for your spot on MSNBC where you do your best to miss the picture while scoring juvenile news hit points?

Look, I don't have a dog in this race. I wouldn't even go as far as Jazzman12 did by looking at the effects on society. If you want a lottery then have a damn lottery, what do I care? The only thing I ask is if you're going to come up with solutions to some newfound social problems caused by the lottery then have the money come from the lottery. That way I don't have to support the Retrain John The Plumber Because He Lost Everything Buying Lottery Tickets Fund if I don't want to. Those who want to support the cause can buy lottos or give directly to the fund.

Trout asked for the positives AND negatives and I'm giving the opposing argument to the uneducated redneck notion that not having a lottery is automatically a deficit to Utah's economy, and to this nonsense that having one elsewhere does not have negative economic impacts as well as positive. Anyone (like you) who says otherwise is cluelessly spouting out their *** and has their mind made up before and regardless of what the facts are. Economies don't exist in a vacuum and analyzing something as complex as this must take in both sides of the equation. I don't see why you wear it as a badge of honor to foolishly look at one side only while cramming your head as deep inside a procession of 12 mule asses as you can to avoid the other.

Or I could put it in Salty terms by saying we should legalize underage prostitution because they have it in Sri Lanka and people are going there because it's illegal here and we're losing money because of it. Yeah.

So your solution is to have a big government that protects us from ourselves, even raising taxes to pay for it if needed. And then you say I'm the one who should be on MSNBC, lol.

I don't know about underage prostitution. Kids aren't adults and should not be expected to make decisions like that. Just like I am not advocating that kids should be allowed to drink, smoke weed, or even play the lottery. However, I DO think drinking, smoking weed, playing the lottery, and even prostitution should be legal for adults. This is America after all. Why the heck shouldn't anyone be allowed to do what they want to do (as long as it isn't hurting anyone but themselves)?
 
As I said above, this money doesn't come from nowhere. If you want extra money to fund things, it's simpler/more cost effective/less regressive to simply increase taxes.

So it's better to increase taxes for everyone rather than allowing a lottery that is optional? If the "majority of the people" don't want a lottery, how will they feel about having their taxes increased? Earmark the proceeds for education and be done with it.


I suspect the amount of money leaving Utah for lotteries in other states is truly miniscule. Do you have any data on that?

It probably is minuscule, but it is still money leaving the state. Why allow that? Do you think that those who drive to Malad are the only ones who would play it? Me neither, and if someone wants to put $10 on Powerball tickets instead of groceries, god bless 'em. We can't babysit everyone.
 
The fact that the educational system is ****. It is not that hard to figure out really.

You are impossible to have a conversation with because you are a condescending jackass. Welcome to an exclusive list you twit.

Utah's educational system is not ****. Can you tell me what criteria you are basing this on?

Like I said, Utah already spends the lowest amount per student (or close anyway) and gets upper tier results. If you're saying the educational system is **** and can't tell anyone exactly what you mean by that, then you've probably been watching too much Fox News.

Again, the issue IS money in Utah. We're spending more tax dollars on it than any other state (per person), but we have so many kids that those dollars are stretched thinner than any other state. So we need more revenue, and it needs to come from a new source.
 
No. I looked, but only found articles that listed us as spending dead last per student. Nothin about the per taxpayer...on that I'm going off something I heard a few years ago. I'll keep looking.

Yeah I could not find it either. It would be interesting to see how Utah stacks up.
 
We had fun. The kids got a little restless after a few hours, but it was enjoyable. We listened to a lot of Rammstein and there is some sort of weird awesomeness hearing both my 4 year old and 1 year old singing in German.

I have a goal now of getting you with your 4 and 1 year old girls fishing on the boat with my 4 and 1 year old boys when our womenz are working/sleeping. Charge that ipod and get ready to trust us five to put up the orange flag when you eat **** skiing at top speed--somewhere around 22 mph.

Oh, and bring the Asian too so we can have some real fun afterward.
 
So it's better to increase taxes for everyone rather than allowing a lottery that is optional? If the "majority of the people" don't want a lottery, how will they feel about having their taxes increased? Earmark the proceeds for education and be done with it.

I still think preferentially taxing the poorest and least educated people is one of the worst suggestions ever--even if it's a self-selected "opt in". Again, if you want more funds for education there are many better ways to achieve that.

And frankly, it's a complete red herring saying that the funds will go toward education. The only reason people claim that (in my opinion) is to get others to agree to hold a lottery. Almost certainly what will happen is that the funds that have historically gone towards education will be reduced, and the total amount going towards education will be basically the same.

It probably is minuscule, but it is still money leaving the state. Why allow that? Do you think that those who drive to Malad are the only ones who would play it? Me neither, and if someone wants to put $10 on Powerball tickets instead of groceries, god bless 'em. We can't babysit everyone.

And if/when they win some money in the lottery I guess it's money coming back into the state. The net is pretty miniscule as I said in an earlier post.
 
Yeah I could not find it either. It would be interesting to see how Utah stacks up.

Don't have time to look this up right now, but I did about a year ago and found what others in the thread have said--that Utah is basically at the very bottom in terms of spending per student, but close to the top in terms of spending per family (or spending per taxpayer).
 
Don't have time to look this up right now, but I did about a year ago and found what others in the thread have said--that Utah is basically at the very bottom in terms of spending per student, but close to the top in terms of spending per family (or spending per taxpayer).

This post reminded me and this is what I found.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...-percentage-of-budget-spent-on-education.html

Has Utah at #10 in ranking of % of total budget. The other link I listed shows Utah as last as $ per child. Interesting...
 
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