Why we need to Trade Jefferson through February 6th (Stats)

[spycam1]

Good plan. Trade away any good veterans, suck and lose every game, get high draft picks, instill losing attitude and have no one to teach and work with young guys, trade them away because they never develop since they had to start to early and cant learn, start the new draft picks since they are the future. This plan always works for the perennial losing teams.

Who do you think has been working with the young guys post moves? Jefferson. Who do you think talks to them on the bench and point out mistakes and how to fix them? Jefferson Who do you think talks these kids up and tells them to keep working and they will be great? Jefferson Who do you think they practice against and improve against? Jefferson

Jefferson is not perfect player but he plays hard and he is great with these young kids. He has one of the best attitudes from a veteran who could be replaced by younger guys than I have ever seen.

Your franchise should do everything to win and make it better. If these kids are not better and dont earn minutes over vets they will not develop. Teams who win championships dont bench and trade better players to develop and they dont "tank" seasons on purpose to get higher picks.

I understand your concerns, but you act like this strategy has a 0% chance of working. It HAS worked in the past. It's certainly a risk, but a risk worth taking, imo. If you want to win titles instead of just being pretty good every year, you have to take a chance and let your top picks develop.

And I'm sorry, but I'm sick of all of this "mentor" **** people throw around. Did the past greats have "mentors" they sat around and "learned from" for years and years? No, they got minutes so they could make mistakes, learn from them, and progress into the amazing players we know them as today. You learn from your own mistakes more than anything in life, not just basketball, and I'm concerned that Kanter and Favors aren't being given the opportunity to even make mistakes, resulting in a slower than necessary progression process.

 

[gomretat]

Kanter and Favors are the future but throwing them into the fray as starters or giving them starters minutes is not the answer. Things are just fine bringing them a long as they learn and develop. And Al is critical if we want to have a chance at the playoffs which does matter in the development of the young uns. Leave Al right where he is.

 

[sgt.mac.1981]

I would like to see Kanter and Favors get more playing time, especially on nights when Al and Paul struggle. The other option is to go big like LA has done for years. Move Paul to the 3 for a couple of minutes and bring Favors in to play power forward. This would mostly be a defensive alignment without a pure shooter on the outside.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Kanters and Favors are getting a good amount of minutes right now. Games they play well they get more. Seems like the coaching staff has the right approach.

And yes most great players have mentors and people they work with to get better. Some of them on the team some of them in the off season. Every successful person in sports or anywhere can tell you people who helped them get there and stay there.

 

[Cope]

You can't take jefferson's fg% or efg% and compare them to Favors, Kanter or anyone on this team except Millsap maybe. most of the time he gets the ball too far away from the basket with an iso-type situation, or worse a double team. He's bailing out the team when they don't know what to do, which happens a ton because harris sucks. Millsap would look even worse if he was used this way. Jefferson doesn't have bad stamina imo, but they ask too much from him. You could have this game plan with young Shaq as your center.

OK lets compare him to Millsap then... you are way wrong either way!

Jefferson Shot clock usage
Secs. Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
0-10 20%* .642** 41%* 6%* 4.3*
11-15 29%* .474** 61%* 7%* 4.5*
16-20 31%* .425** 44%* 6%* 4.3*
21+ 20%* .358** 74%* 8%* 2.4

Millsap Shot clock usage
Secs. Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
0-10 33%* .671** 40%* 4%* 5.9*
11-15 23%* .509** 64%* 5%* 3.1*
16-20 23%* .491** 74%* 4%* 3.0*
21+ 21%* .422** 48%* 4%* 2.4*

 

[northeast]

Another option would be to start pairing the vets and the youths more at PF / C.
...that way you'd get more of a balance of rebounding and defense and offense at all times.
Millsap and Jefferson could take turns being the primary scorer, while they'd always have someone to help with the energy level.

 

[Cope]

Who do you think has been working with the young guys post moves? Jefferson. Who do you think talks to them on the bench and point out mistakes and how to fix them? Jefferson Who do you think talks these kids up and tells them to keep working and they will be great? Jefferson Who do you think they practice against and improve against? Jefferson

You seriously want Jefferson teaching anyone post moves? Sorry but since 65% of his shots are jump shots, he gets to the line less than anyone of our bigs, and plays less defense than any that's the last person I want teaching our bigs.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You seriously want Jefferson teaching anyone post moves? Sorry but since 65% of his shots are jump shots that is not what I want from my 2 future bigs.

They have said they help them with post moves and more importantly foot work. They thank him for the help but I guess you know better than them. Jefferson has some of the best footwork in the post in the NBA. His push shot is unique to him and it works for him but outside of that he has great post moves. If you think Jefferson is a terrible offensive post player than you are beyond discussion.

Jefferson is also a great person to practice post defense on. I love Millsap but he is not much of a post up player. He has a fade jumper other than that he faces the basket.

 

[Cope]

They have said they help them with post moves and more importantly foot work. Jefferson has some of the best footwork in the post in the NBA. His push shot is unique to him and it works for him but outside of that he has great post moves. If you think Jefferson is a terrible offensive post player than you are beyond discussion.

Again, the stats probably differ regarding your perception of a dominant low post player. WHEN he does play inside I agree, but the problem is he shoots his jumper 2/3 times vs. playing down low. That to me is NOT a dominant post player.

Jefferson Shot selection
Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 65%* .374** 55%* 7%* 8.0*
Close 25%* .569** 49%* 6%* 4.6*
Dunk 6%* .941** 75%* 0%* 2.0*
Tips 3%* .667** 0%* 11%* .8*
Inside 35%* .648** 51%* 5%* 7.4*

 

[Cope]

Just for reference.. here is Millsap (Our PF, Not Center)

Shot selection
Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 66%* .443** 59%* 4%* 7.8*
Close 25%* .705** 49%* 5%* 4.8*
Dunk 6%* .867** 54%* 7%* 1.4*
Tips 2%* .600** 0%* 0%* .3*
Inside 34%* .728** 47%* 5%* 6.6*

 

[sgt.mac.1981]

Jefferson catches the ball out of position too often. Some times that is his fault for not working for position, but usually he is given the ball late by the guards. Unfortunately, he tries to force the issue when he is off his spot leading to jump shots. He also has the tendancy to let the play break down before going into one-on-one isolation moves while everyone else stands and watches. One reason our 3pt pct is so low is a lack of effective kick outs from Jefferson. Most of our 3's are rushed with the shot clock running down or jacking up shots to early(CJ).

 

[Dr. Jones]

I really like our frontcourt depth. I also realize we won't be able to pay all these guys (and more picks) in 3 or 4 years. Need to be thinking about that as well. (sorry if already discussed here .. only scanned the thread)

 

[sgt.mac.1981]

I do think Jefferson's time on the team is limited. It all depends on the developement of Kanter and any other draft picks we bring in as to how long he is in SLC.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Again, the stats probably differ regarding your perception of a dominant low post player. WHEN he does play inside I agree, but the problem is he shoots his jumper 2/3 times vs. playing down low. That to me is NOT a dominant post player.

Jefferson Shot selection
Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 65%* .374** 55%* 7%* 8.0*
Close 25%* .569** 49%* 6%* 4.6*
Dunk 6%* .941** 75%* 0%* 2.0*
Tips 3%* .667** 0%* 11%* .8*
Inside 35%* .648** 51%* 5%* 7.4*

So since he shoots a lot of jumpers means he does not have good footwork? Does that mean he cant teach or show young guys post moves and foot work? Yes Jefferson tries to do to much on this team. But they dont have much else on offense, especially half court offense. But this has nothing to do with his ability to use post moves, his foot work and ultimately for being able to help young guys.

 

[The Thriller]

After seeing the airballs and bricks from Harris, Hayward, Miles, Bell, Burks, Hayward, and Howard, I think our chances of scoring are much better when Al and Millsap "force" shots than when those other guys have wide open looks. I've never in my life seen so many SGs/SFs with such horrible shooting numbers. Most of them are shooting between 20-35% from the 3 point line. CJ, Harris, Hayward, and Howard are all below 30 %. We're DEAD last in 3 pointers taken and made in the entire league. Yet, we're averaging the 10th most amount of points per game in the entire league. Why?

Look at the stats.

We average about 97 points per game. Our 4 bigs average 49 points per game. 49/97=nearly 51% of our total points. If 4 frontcourt players are making up over half of our offensive production, that tells you that the rest of the team is not pulling its own weight. And it's not like they're chucking either. Favors, Kanter, Millsap, and Jefferson are the leaders in FG %. Once again, Hayward, Harris, Howard, etc leave much to be desired.

And some morons on this website have the nerve to blast Millsap and Jefferson? Have you idiots seen Harris shoot 3s? It surprises me when he actually draws iron! Does anyone not cringe when they see Howard, CJ, Hayward, and Raja shoot?

When your own fans are surprised that you make 3s, you know you're in trouble.

Without Harris, CJ, or Hayward, meh we're about the same team, slightly worse... Without Millsap and Jefferson, you're looking at a team that is fighting Wash, Char, etc for top lotto pick.

 

[Ron Mexico]

After seeing the airballs and bricks from Harris, Hayward, Miles, Bell, Burks, Hayward, and Howard, I think our chances of scoring are much better when Al and Millsap "force" shots than when those other guys have wide open looks. I've never in my life seen so many SGs/SFs with such horrible shooting numbers. Most of them are shooting between 20-35% from the 3 point line.

And some morons on this website have the nerve to blast Millsap and Jefferson? Have you idiots seen Harris shoot 3s? It surprises me when he actually draws iron! Does anyone not cringe when they see Howard, CJ, Hayward, and Raja shoot?

When your own fans are surprised that you make 3s, you know you're in trouble.

People are mad that Jefferson does not pass out of the post enough. If you were Jefferson would you want to pass out to an open Harris or Hayward who is going to shoot a brick or drive and kick back out?

Our big men situation is fine. We have 2 talented starters in their prime and 2 young players who are developing and getting better with a good amount of minutes. Give me a decent PG, SG and SF and this team would be great. I think our big men rotation is one of the best in the NBA.

 

[The Thriller]

People are mad that Jefferson does not pass out of the post enough. If you were Jefferson would you want to pass out to an open Harris or Hayward who is going to shoot a brick or drive and kick back out?

Our big men situation is fine. We have 2 talented starters in their prime and 2 young players who are developing and getting better with a good amount of minutes. Give me a decent PG, SG and SF and this team would be great. I think our big men rotation is one of the best in the NBA.

I have seen improvement in Big Al's passing, shot selection, and overall patience on offense.

Unfortunately, I have not seen improvement from Harris, Hayward, CJ, Howard, etc on offense.

We're winning IN SPITE of our guards' inability to produce not because of it.

We're winning BECAUSE of Big Al and Millsap not IN SPITE of them.

 

[Cope]

After seeing the airballs and bricks from Harris, Hayward, Miles, Bell, Burks, Hayward, and Howard, I think our chances of scoring are much better when Al and Millsap "force" shots than when those other guys have wide open looks. I've never in my life seen so many SGs/SFs with such horrible shooting numbers. Most of them are shooting between 20-35% from the 3 point line. CJ, Harris, Hayward, and Howard are all below 30 %. We're DEAD last in 3 pointers taken and made in the entire league. Yet, we're averaging the 10th most amount of points per game in the entire league. Why?

Look at the stats.

We average about 97 points per game. Our 4 bigs average 49 points per game. 49/97=nearly 51% of our total points. If 4 frontcourt players are making up over half of our offensive production, that tells you that the rest of the team is not pulling its own weight. And it's not like they're chucking either. Favors, Kanter, Millsap, and Jefferson are the leaders in FG %. Once again, Hayward, Harris, Howard, etc leave much to be desired.

And some morons on this website have the nerve to blast Millsap and Jefferson? Have you idiots seen Harris shoot 3s? It surprises me when he actually draws iron! Does anyone not cringe when they see Howard, CJ, Hayward, and Raja shoot?

When your own fans are surprised that you make 3s, you know you're in trouble.

Without Harris, CJ, or Hayward, meh we're about the same team, slightly worse... Without Millsap and Jefferson, you're looking at a team that is fighting Wash, Char, etc for top lotto pick.

Again, who said anything about this year? This isn't about what we have on the wings or PG this year.. but about Jefferson vs. Developing our Young Bigs.

Not going to disagree with the statement of our Wings/PG struggling, expecially from the 3 point line. The known about our PG/Wing situation into this year was that Bell/CJ/Hayward were supposed to be the 'shooters'. All 3 to a ponit have struggled. Bell started horribly, has played and shot better lately. CJ had his middle streak.. Hayward has played well lately. Problem is not any 2 have been consistent enough throughout the season.

Our PG outside shooting is what I thought it would be. Harris/Watson/Tinsley NEVER have been solid outside shooting.

I think our inside numbers that were posted are a direct reflection of Corbin actually coaching well.. telling them inside to shoot.

Again, my problem isn't with them for this thread.. its that Jefferson isn't as effective as everyone thinks and our Young Bigs need more PT for a number of reasons and Jefferson is one of the main reasons why.

 

[zbone]

The problem with trading Jefferson is has a skill that no one else on the team has shown- the ability to get a decent shot against anyone in the league.

Jefferson isn't perfect but in crunch time Millsap struggles with certain matchups.

Harris has no confidence. Hayward struggles to finish at the rim.

Our next best offensive creator is CJ Miles.

I believe trading Jefferson might be the right move for our future. But trading him would probably screw our present.

I believe Howard, Favors and Kanter can be our go to men when proper plays are run for them.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I'm a well-documented Jefferson doubter/hater/realist, but he's really improved his overall game this year. He's finally learned to play within an offense and he's not as bad on defense.

However:
-He's still the last guy up or down the floor on almost every single possession (commonly not even crossing if the play is fast enough)
-For all of his talk of nastiness and everyone's pre-occupation with his post game, he's Charmin. He doesn't get to the line and when he DOES actually pressure his defender with the ball, it's usually when they're sending help for some weird reason (he's really improved with this last aspect within the season, however).

I don't know that anyone is actually saying that Kanter or Favors are ready to duplicate his production, but I do know that it's pure insanity to be playing two promising #3 overall picks minimal minutes and paying the most money for a guy that - when it's all said and done - is just not a complete or efficient player. And never has been, either.

Jefferson seems like a nice guy with mostly the right attitude (I can't figure out why he refuses to run, though). I do hope he's traded while there's value to be had and I hope he ends up somewhere with a chance to win.