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Fall 2018 General Conference Thread

NAOS said:
Bro....

His fandom is monetized by the church (via TV ratings, merch sales, tickets, etc.). That money then forms a part of their donations/contributions to the causes that he is complaining about in this thread.

This isn't really a debatable thing. Sorry.
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If someone would like to disagree with this -- substantively -- then I'm all ears. Y'all probably gonna keep making it about something else, though. That's the "classic" JFC to me.
 
NAOS said:
If someone would like to disagree with this -- substantively -- then I'm all ears. Y'all probably gonna keep making it about something else, though. That's the "classic" JFC to me.
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Don’t most corporations have their own self-interests and/or beliefs and don’t most donate to certain causes, many of which we’d be opposed to, if we knew what those donations were?

Does that make us hypocrites? And even if it does, does that give you the right to parade around here crossing lines with fish and others?

I mean, sure you have the right. But don’t go crying when you get warned or banned again, and don’t act shocked when people don’t like or appreciate your rude ways.
 
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Wes Mantooth said:
Don’t most corporations have their own self-interests and/or beliefs and don’t most donate to certain causes, many of which we’d be opposed to, if we knew what those donations were?

Does that make us hypocrites? And even if it does, does that give you the right to parade around here crossing lines with fish and others?

I mean, sure you have the right. But don’t go crying when you get warned or banned again, and don’t act shocked when people don’t like appreciate your rude ways.
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Lol. If you know you’re supporting an institution that’s at odds with your desired political outcomes, but then go on supporting them and complaining about the outcomes........ What would you call that, Wes?

I haven’t broken a single rule. You’re just a snowflake.
 
NAOS said:
Lol. If you know you’re supporting an institution that’s at odds with your desired political outcomes, but then go on supporting them and complaining about the outcomes........ What would you call that, Wes?

I haven’t broken a single rule. You’re just a snowflake.
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I think you likely support more unsavory institutions than you realize. I think we all do. You name it. Certain tv stations we watch. Certain food products we buy. Particular medications we take. Our “support” for entities is seemingly endless. And I’m sure you’re as “guilty” of this as fish or anybody else.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
I think you likely support more unsavory institutions than you realize. I think we all do. You name it. Certain tv stations we watch. Certain food products we buy. Our “support” for entities is seemingly endless.
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Nice answer. Obviously this is about one snowflake protecting another, not the issue.

Fish posts a complaint about the church in the General conference thread; I point out the hypocrisy in that (never mind his taste in doing so); I’m the bad guy. Got it.
 
It also isn’t about simple support of an “unsavory” institution. What a terribly dishonest spin to the conversation. I’ve never alleged anything unsavory about the LDS institution.
 
I don’t really get the Mormon name thing...the logic behind it I guess.

Mormonism started because it is different than Christianity. So isn’t it logical for the religion to not be called Christianity? Or just like how we don’t call a Calvinist the same thing as a Pentecostal. If they prefer to be called LDS, sure...but is Mormon an insult? I guess I never realized it was.

I just don’t get it. It’s not a big deal imo, I’d just like to understand the logic.
 
JustTheTip said:
I don’t really get the Mormon name thing...the logic behind it I guess.

Mormonism started because it is different than Christianity. So isn’t it logical for the religion to not be called Christianity? Or just like how we don’t call a Calvinist the same thing as a Pentecostal. If they prefer to be called LDS, sure...but is Mormon an insult? I guess I never realized it was.

I just don’t get it. It’s not a big deal imo, I’d just like to understand the logic.
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For what it's worth, to Mormons (ha, I mean "members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints") Mormonism is a subset of Christianity. Not different than Christianity. The fact that you apparently didn't realize that is probably the type of thing that led Pres. Nelson to want to reemphasize the name of the church (which includes the name "Jesus Christ" in it).
 
JustTheTip said:
I don’t really get the Mormon name thing...the logic behind it I guess.

Mormonism started because it is different than Christianity. So isn’t it logical for the religion to not be called Christianity? Or just like how we don’t call a Calvinist the same thing as a Pentecostal. If they prefer to be called LDS, sure...but is Mormon an insult? I guess I never realized it was.

I just don’t get it. It’s not a big deal imo, I’d just like to understand the logic.
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So this is a total shot in the dark, but the church has taken some PR hits the last few decades.

Maybe they think a rebrand will help rehab their image.
 
JustTheTip said:
I don’t really get the Mormon name thing...the logic behind it I guess.


Mormonism started because it is different than Christianity. So isn’t it logical for the religion to not be called Christianity? Or just like how we don’t call a Calvinist the same thing as a Pentecostal. If they prefer to be called LDS, sure...but is Mormon an insult? I guess I never realized it was.


I just don’t get it. It’s not a big deal imo, I’d just like to understand the logic.
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I think your post shows the reason for the change. The church is Christian in that we believe in and worship God through Jesus Christ as our savior. Many people don’t view members of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS as Christian. They take the name Mormon and think we worship Mormon, or something like that. I don’t have an issue of making sure we keep Christ in the name of the church as we make reference to it, even understanding it can be inconvenient.


Maybe the issue is in the definition of what people view Christian as. It seems as if Christian is used to define a branch of Christianity, as Pentecostals and Calvinists are still Christian, correct?

Why would a member of this church be any different if we also believe in and worship Christ?


The term Mormon did start out from enemies of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It did turn into something that was accepted as a descriptor and something easier to say than the long name of the church. I get that the origin of the term was not positive, but saying that I don’t think that should be the main reason to move away from it. The term Christian started out also as a derogatory term used by non Christian people to refer to followers of Christ.


My take away is that the change is being used to clear up confusion of other Christians as well as just other people in understanding who the members of the Church worship, and who is most important in our beliefs. It is not Mormon, or any of the other Book of Mormon prophets. While they are important, they are only important as they point the way to Christ.


The secondary and tertiary reasons for the change are just that, smaller less important reasons to do this that may have flawed foundations on their own.
 
NAOS said:
Lol. If you know you’re supporting an institution that’s at odds with your desired political outcomes, but then go on supporting them and complaining about the outcomes........ What would you call that, Wes?
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Not speaking for Wes Mantooth, but I would call that human. To be human is to embrace internal contradiction.
 
One Brow said:
Not speaking for Wes Mantooth, but I would call that human. To be human is to embrace internal contradiction.
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I agree with you. In this case, though, there hasn't been an embrace of contradiction on the part of the contradictor. There's been denial.

Sure, denial is also human, but it's harder to shrug that off as "ok".
 
Jazz Spazz said:
I think your post shows the reason for the change. The church is Christian in that we believe in and worship God through Jesus Christ as our savior. Many people don’t view members of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS as Christian. They take the name Mormon and think we worship Mormon, or something like that. I don’t have an issue of making sure we keep Christ in the name of the church as we make reference to it, even understanding it can be inconvenient.


Maybe the issue is in the definition of what people view Christian as. It seems as if Christian is used to define a branch of Christianity, as Pentecostals and Calvinists are still Christian, correct?

Why would a member of this church be any different if we also believe in and worship Christ?


The term Mormon did start out from enemies of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It did turn into something that was accepted as a descriptor and something easier to say than the long name of the church. I get that the origin of the term was not positive, but saying that I don’t think that should be the main reason to move away from it. The term Christian started out also as a derogatory term used by non Christian people to refer to followers of Christ.


My take away is that the change is being used to clear up confusion of other Christians as well as just other people in understanding who the members of the Church worship, and who is most important in our beliefs. It is not Mormon, or any of the other Book of Mormon prophets. While they are important, they are only important as they point the way to Christ.


The secondary and tertiary reasons for the change are just that, smaller less important reasons to do this that may have flawed foundations on their own.
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I feel you. Thanks.

I view the LDS faith as a kind of subset of Christianity in the same way Catholicism is. I wouldn’t say either is correct, but that’s neither here nor there.
 
colton said:
For what it's worth, to Mormons (ha, I mean "members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints") Mormonism is a subset of Christianity. Not different than Christianity. The fact that you apparently didn't realize that is probably the type of thing that led Pres. Nelson to want to reemphasize the name of the church (which includes the name "Jesus Christ" in it).
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I do think that is the heart of the issue. Mormons think of themselves as Christians, and most Christian religions think of Mormon beliefs to be antithetical to historic Christian orthodoxy. These other religions have used the term Mormon as a derogatory term.

Other Christians believe that Joseph Smith was a con man that "translated" the book of Mormon using magic stones in a hat in the same way that he tricked farmers out of money in upstate New York by "glass looking" to find treasure. Essentially these other Christian religions refuse to expand Christianity to mean those who have rejected orthodox Christian beliefs for what they believe is a nineteenth-century made up, heretical theology.

I personally think the Mormons should take the advice of Tyrion Lannister:
"Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you."
 
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