Official Rudy Gobert Trade Ideas Thread

[oneye]

But Mitchell does love it here too. He told me.

It's funny that there are now 2 posts on this thread saying that they heard Donovan loves it here and you still don't want to believe it.

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I get there’s no way to verify the information, I’m simply taking them at their word. Mines a gut feeling they say they have sources.

 

[That1UtahFan]

I get there’s no way to verify the information, I’m simply taking them at their word. Mines a gut feeling they say they have sources.

And here boys and girls is the exact reasoning why the internet is awful. "I have a thought about something. A random nameless/faceless person claims to have sources (lol) that backs up my thoughts. Therefore because my thoughts are being said by someone else it makes them true."

 

[fishonjazz]

I get there’s no way to verify the information, I’m simply taking them at their word. Mines a gut feeling they say they have sources.

I have more and better sources than they do.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That’s rich considering you were on here before Game 6 arguing about how dumb I was for saying Gobert can’t guard the perimeter and is a liability against small ball and then went MIA after Game 6 happened. Exactly what I was telling you happened and you had a pie thrown directly in your face. No wonder you didn’t post for awhile after that.

You are beyond help my dude

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If your takeaway from Game 6 is that "Gobert can't guard the perimeter", then you didn't understand what was happening.

The reason Snyder's gameplan was to keep Gobert in the paint isn't because "Gobert can't guard the perimeter". It's because none of the other four guys could prevent penetration. If Gobert isn't camped in the paint, it's a layup.

Is Gobert's value as a rim protector basically nullified against 5-out offenses? Yes. Is it fair to question whether this team can win a title paying as much as they are to Gobert, considering the league is going to keep going more and more in on 5-out lineups? Absolutely. Does Gobert deserve a ****load of blame for having several inexcusable mental lapses once we got up 25? Hell. Yes. Does he deserve criticism for being unable to punish small ball on the other side of the court? How about for not dominating the boards? **** yes.

But in this series, Gobert's defense wasn't the liability. Everybody else's was.

I agree with a lot of this... my biggest disappointment with Rudy was not when a guy hit 15 wide open corner threes... It was when Reggie Jackson went right into his chest and scored... followed it up with a floater right over him. Its that stuff and the 50/50 balls the clips were able to tip away.

I think our choices are these - If we want to take a slight chance at winning a title... then we have to get something for Rudy in a trade. If we want to be a guaranteed playoff team that hits the second round sometimes and wins a lot of regular season... then you roll it forward.

I don't know that what we get for Rudy gets us anywhere near where we need to be... so do whatever you please DL.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think our choices are these - If we want to take a slight chance at winning a title... then we have to get something for Rudy in a trade. If we want to be a guaranteed playoff team that hits the second round sometimes and wins a lot of regular season... then you roll it forward.

On the other hand there is a lot of luck involved with winning a championship.
The jazz with this exact same roster might have the championship this year if Conley doesn't get hurt. Or if the jazz got the two seed. Or if Mitchell and gobert weren't banged up in game 6. Or if quin makes any adjustments in game six. Or the clippers don't shoot like 75% on open threes (what's the league average on open threes? I'm betting they exceeded it. Hell, what's the clippers team average on open threes? I bet they exceeded that too)

This roster was championship caliber imo. **** happens sometimes doe.

Imagine that this was year 1 of the Lakers with AD and lebron. Everyone would be saying that they need to make a bunch of changes to their roster too. Yet they just won the championship with the same roster the previous year.
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[gomretat]

My take:
1) The Jazz wont trade Rudy and it is highly unlikely the Jazz could get better by doing so - HH is spot on - If you bail on Rudy, you are bailing on a philosophy that drives our offense and defense and will likely require a complete overhaul of both our roster and our schemes. Some fans would love to see that happen but I don't see the Jazz doing it.
2) There were two teams in the league this year that had the talent and roster to beat our current roster with small ball. We happened to get one of those two teams in round 2. Other teams may have been able to beat us playing to our strengths but not small ball.
3) There will always be super teams who have greater talent and greater match up flexibility. The question is around how you decide to attack given some degree of deficiency.
I am old enough to remember multiple times when fans wanted to blow up the team during the Stockton Malone era and the Jazz stayed the course. I am curious to see what we do now given that the NBA is a very different place than it was during the 90's.

 

[David Hume]

I don't really want to trade Gobert, and I don't think we will. However, I noticed that there are rumors of a Zion Williamson -Brandon Ingram incompatibility. If the Jazz were ever to do something drastic, Ingram's name might come up.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I don't really want to trade Gobert, and I don't think we will. However, I noticed that there are rumors of a Zion Williamson -Brandon Ingram incompatibility. If the Jazz were ever to do something drastic, Ingram's name might come up.

Gobert could not command someone like Ingram back in a trade.

We would be looking at the Andrew Wiggins/Harrison Barnes type of wings.

 

[416Klawzz]

Honestly Rudy should focus more on his offensive skills than boxing geez, he has no range outside of a dunk. It hurts us and hurts us very much...

 

[LogGrad98]

I love Rudy , he has been a great Jazzman , stood proud for Utah .

I just don’t know where this team goes with him and Don being the big 2 … how many more times do you want to try , with the same outcome ?

We got exposed again in the playoffs , maybe Synder didn’t pull him cause he is our max guy ? But everyone else on the planet could see what the clippers were doing .

Think about when Rudy matches up against the best in Embiid , Jokic , AD ect … does he really slow them down ? Does he stop them ? Does he keep them under 20pts ? Nope , not really , they still get theirs .

Surely the best defensive player in the league should have some impact on them , slow them down .

Yes , he wins us the odd game , with a last play block , which is nice .

But that’s our ceiling with him isn’t it , he isn’t turning into a jump shooter taking you down on the low block , with the small guy on him … posting up the small guy … with what move ? He has the foot work of a deer with skates on … Still can’t catch passes thrown at him or finish like a 7’2 guy should .

I dunno what we get for him , but we’ve seen this movie before , it’s time to try something else

The odd game?

Without Rudy we would have been a lottery team this year. If the injury that happened to Mitchell had happened to Gobert instead we had a decent chance of missing the playoffs entirely let alone holding the #1 seed.

Man people are terrible at evaluating impact on the game. Just go look at the on/off numbers for the season for Gobert and the effect is startling. The fact that the team that beat us employed a scheme entirely center around negating Gobert while not really worrying about Mitchell at all speaks volumes. And the inability of the team to adapt to that change wasn't on Rudy, it was on the coaching staff for simply having no answer and on the FO for being lulled into such a sense of security by Gobert's dominating presence that they complete ignored our obvious deficiency, perimeter D, and instead drafted a project big and made no other moves to address that problem.

The clippers were a nightmare matchup for us, but not because of Gobert. It was because they exposed the fact that we have no one, NO ONE outside of Gobert who even plays passable defense, so if you have the personnel to pull him away from the rim, since no one on our team can even bother anyone on D, it exposes our lack of team D due to Gobert making up for so many shortcomings on defense.

By the way he was also just as impactful on offense this season due to his gravity at the rim. Why do you think every drive ended up in an open 3? Because they were forced to collapse and try to stop the threat of the Gobert dunk which also opens lanes for the driver.

People watch a few games, in which Gobert is literally trying to guard the entire floor because our team can't guard anyone, and say "see, Gobert can't guard the 3 pt line, get his weak *** out of here".

The depth of basketball ignorance on this site is staggering.

 

[Elizah Huge]

The odd game?

Without Rudy we would have been a lottery team this year. If the injury that happened to Mitchell had happened to Gobert instead we had a decent chance of missing the playoffs entirely let alone holding the #1 seed.

Man people are terrible at evaluating impact on the game. Just go look at the on/off numbers for the season for Gobert and the effect is startling. The fact that the team that beat us employed a scheme entirely center around negating Gobert while not really worrying about Mitchell at all speaks volumes. And the inability of the team to adapt to that change wasn't on Rudy, it was on the coaching staff for simply having no answer and on the FO for being lulled into such a sense of security by Gobert's dominating presence that they complete ignored our obvious deficiency, perimeter D, and instead drafted a project big and made no other moves to address that problem.

The clippers were a nightmare matchup for us, but not because of Gobert. It was because they exposed the fact that we have no one, NO ONE outside of Gobert who even plays passable defense, so if you have the personnel to pull him away from the rim, since no one on our team can even bother anyone on D, it exposes our lack of team D due to Gobert making up for so many shortcomings on defense.

By the way he was also just as impactful on offense this season due to his gravity at the rim. Why do you think every drive ended up in an open 3? Because they were forced to collapse and try to stop the threat of the Gobert dunk which also opens lanes for the driver.

People watch a few games, in which Gobert is literally trying to guard the entire floor because our team can't guard anyone, and say "see, Gobert can't guard the 3 pt line, get his weak *** out of here".

The depth of basketball ignorance on this site is staggering.

Dude what in the **** are you talking about.

They worried about negating Gobert and that speaks volumes about Mitchell?

They exploited Gobert’s small ball weakness and somehow that speaks volumes about Mitchell?

When are people going to hold Gobert accountable. It’s always someone else’s fault. The way you guys talk about him you’d think he was a top-5 player on the league. Then have the audacity to talk about the basketball ignorance on this site.

 

[Hekate]

Dude what in the **** are you talking about.

They worried about negating Gobert and that speaks volumes about Mitchell?

They exploited Gobert’s small ball weakness and somehow that speaks volumes about Mitchell?

When are people going to hold Gobert accountable. It’s always someone else’s fault. The way you guys talk about him you’d think he was a top-5 player on the league. Then have the audacity to talk about the basketball ignorance on this site.

Was the small ball weakness on defense or offense? Don't say both.

 

[LogGrad98]

Dude what in the **** are you talking about.

They worried about negating Gobert and that speaks volumes about Mitchell?

They exploited Gobert’s small ball weakness and somehow that speaks volumes about Mitchell?

When are people going to hold Gobert accountable. It’s always someone else’s fault. The way you guys talk about him you’d think he was a top-5 player on the league. Then have the audacity to talk about the basketball ignorance on this site.

Please feel free to actually look at the advanced metrics then get back to us with your vast knowledge of the game.

And if you can't see how a team completely game planning for one player while ignoring another speaks volumes for both players you're probably beyond help.

I completely hold Rudy accountable for his performance in the last game. He should have forced the coach to make adjustments so he wasn't required to guard his own man on the perimeter AND make up for everyone else who failed in their defensive assignments, even if it meant pulling Gobert from the game. And frankly everyone seemed beaten that game except Mitchell, Gobert included.

Of course you completely gloss over the fact that without Gobert we wouldn't have been in that seed in the playoffs to begin with. Recency bias confirmed.

And casual fan confirmed.

 

[Max Porter]

Rudy is great in the right condition. But in the playoffs, he’s been exposed every year when a team goes small ball and pops from outside as he can’t defend that far. Failure of the FO.

Need a 4 who can play outside in those situations and it ain’t Faves.

I hate to say it (I love Rudy) but this might be true. We need a PF or center who can score besides dunking it too. I still can’t believe we drafted exum over embiid

 

[Ineptimusprime]

The odd game?

Without Rudy we would have been a lottery team this year. If the injury that happened to Mitchell had happened to Gobert instead we had a decent chance of missing the playoffs entirely let alone holding the #1 seed.

Man people are terrible at evaluating impact on the game. Just go look at the on/off numbers for the season for Gobert and the effect is startling. The fact that the team that beat us employed a scheme entirely center around negating Gobert while not really worrying about Mitchell at all speaks volumes. And the inability of the team to adapt to that change wasn't on Rudy, it was on the coaching staff for simply having no answer and on the FO for being lulled into such a sense of security by Gobert's dominating presence that they complete ignored our obvious deficiency, perimeter D, and instead drafted a project big and made no other moves to address that problem.

The clippers were a nightmare matchup for us, but not because of Gobert. It was because they exposed the fact that we have no one, NO ONE outside of Gobert who even plays passable defense, so if you have the personnel to pull him away from the rim, since no one on our team can even bother anyone on D, it exposes our lack of team D due to Gobert making up for so many shortcomings on defense.

By the way he was also just as impactful on offense this season due to his gravity at the rim. Why do you think every drive ended up in an open 3? Because they were forced to collapse and try to stop the threat of the Gobert dunk which also opens lanes for the driver.

People watch a few games, in which Gobert is literally trying to guard the entire floor because our team can't guard anyone, and say "see, Gobert can't guard the 3 pt line, get his weak *** out of here".

The depth of basketball ignorance on this site is staggering.

Our team can’t guard anyone, because we’ve purposefully surrounded Rudy with shooters that can’t defend. Of course our on off numbers without Rudy on the floor are terrible. We are built around the premise that Rudy is our eraser that makes up for everyone else. It is to make an obvious point to say that we would suck without Rudy, because we were purposefully built to suck without an elite rim protector like Rudy.

Those suggesting the possibility of a Rudy trade are suggesting that we change the entire team philosophy. Building around Rudy is one way to win, but it is not the only one.

Honestly, I hope we make changes elsewhere to try to get some perimeter defense around Rudy. If we are still flaming out in the first or second round next year, we will at least have tried to get Rudy help and should have our answer definitively on the Don/Rudy experiment.

Hard to see a scenario where next year isn’t a championship or a complete tear-down if it is true that we will mostly be running it back.

 

[LogGrad98]

I hate to say it (I love Rudy) but this might be true. We need a PF or center who can score besides dunking it too. I still can’t believe we drafted exum over embiid

Embiid was drafted 3rd, DedEx 5th.

 

[LogGrad98]

Our team can’t guard anyone, because we’ve purposefully surrounded Rudy with shooters that can’t defend. Of course our on off numbers without Rudy on the floor are terrible. We are built around the premise that Rudy is our eraser that makes up for everyone else.

It is to make an obvious point to say that we would suck without Rudy, because we were purposefully built to suck without an elite rim protector like Rudy

Those suggesting the possibility of a Rudy trade are suggesting that we change the entire team philosophy. Building around Rudy is one way to win, but it is not the only one.

Honestly, I hope we make changes elsewhere to try to get some perimeter defense around Rudy. If we are still flaming out in the first or second round next year, we will at least have tried to get Rudy help and should have our answer definitively on the Don/Rudy experiment.

Hard to see a scenario where next year isn’t a championship or a complete tear-down if it is true that we will mostly be running it back.

Yeah it's been pretty clear for 2 years+ now that perimeter D has been the problem and the FO has added unathletic G-leaguers, undersized oft-injured expensive guards, and project bigs, essentially ignoring the problem or kicking the can down the road.

As I've said before, if we had Brogdon this year instead of Conley I believe we go further. And Brogdon was a reasonable target the same year. But I'm not hung up on just that one guy. Any combination of assets to add a reasonable 3&D wing would have broken the glass ceiling for us. But the FO failed at that, or didn't even attempt it. We'll never know which. But it's clear this needs to be addressed now, hopefully.

I'm still concerned they will draft another odd fit or bring in some no-name Niang clone because it's just the Jazz way.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

Yeah it's been pretty clear for 2 years+ now that perimeter D has been the problem and the FO has added unathletic G-leaguers, undersized oft-injured expensive guards, and project bigs, essentially ignoring the problem or kicking the can down the road.

As I've said before, if we had Brogdon this year instead of Conley I believe we go further. And Brogdon was a reasonable target the same year. But I'm not hung up on just that one guy. Any combination of assets to add a reasonable 3&D wing would have broken the glass ceiling for us. But the FO failed at that, or didn't even attempt it. We'll never know which. But it's clear this needs to be addressed now, hopefully.

I'm still concerned they will draft another odd fit or bring in some no-name Niang clone because it's just the Jazz way.

Absolutely. I have zero confidence in DL to make the right decisions about anything. I think we can win a championship with Don and Rudy, but not without an overhaul of the supporting cast. We have far too much shooting and no defense.

Fortunately, most other teams need shooting, and we have it in spades to offer right now in trades. I hope the tires are already being kicked on what we can get for Bogey, Ingles, Clarkson, and Fav.

If we can unload Fav into someone’s cap space before the draft and free agency, that would be a HUGE win. That’s gotta be priority number one. If we have to send Clarkson or someone too in a multi-player trade, I think you do it if the other piece or asset coming back helps us out competitively and with the tax.

 

[fishonjazz]

Dude what in the **** are you talking about.

They worried about negating Gobert and that speaks volumes about Mitchell?

They exploited Gobert’s small ball weakness and somehow that speaks volumes about Mitchell?

When are people going to hold Gobert accountable. It’s always someone else’s fault. The way you guys talk about him you’d think he was a top-5 player on the league. Then have the audacity to talk about the basketball ignorance on this site.

Lol I just read logs entire post. I didn't see one mention of Mitchell in it

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