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Official Rudy Gobert Trade Ideas Thread

Jingled said:
The way to get the other team to stop playing small is to punish them with your big guy on the offensive end. Unfortunately Gobert's never been able to punish teams for defending him with smaller players because he's so limited offensively.
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This. Basketball is a simple game in the end, but you need to have the right pieces. Players who are defensive specialists but have no offensive game are becoming extinct and there is a good reason for that while on the other hand players who have offensive skillsets but are bad at defense are valued rather nice and are big part of modern basketball
 
LogGrad98 said:
The odd game?

Without Rudy we would have been a lottery team this year. If the injury that happened to Mitchell had happened to Gobert instead we had a decent chance of missing the playoffs entirely let alone holding the #1 seed.

Man people are terrible at evaluating impact on the game. Just go look at the on/off numbers for the season for Gobert and the effect is startling. The fact that the team that beat us employed a scheme entirely center around negating Gobert while not really worrying about Mitchell at all speaks volumes. And the inability of the team to adapt to that change wasn't on Rudy, it was on the coaching staff for simply having no answer and on the FO for being lulled into such a sense of security by Gobert's dominating presence that they complete ignored our obvious deficiency, perimeter D, and instead drafted a project big and made no other moves to address that problem.

The clippers were a nightmare matchup for us, but not because of Gobert. It was because they exposed the fact that we have no one, NO ONE outside of Gobert who even plays passable defense, so if you have the personnel to pull him away from the rim, since no one on our team can even bother anyone on D, it exposes our lack of team D due to Gobert making up for so many shortcomings on defense.

By the way he was also just as impactful on offense this season due to his gravity at the rim. Why do you think every drive ended up in an open 3? Because they were forced to collapse and try to stop the threat of the Gobert dunk which also opens lanes for the driver.

People watch a few games, in which Gobert is literally trying to guard the entire floor because our team can't guard anyone, and say "see, Gobert can't guard the 3 pt line, get his weak *** out of here".

The depth of basketball ignorance on this site is staggering.
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Obviously you’re a stats guy , that doesn’t watch the game closely… how many post seasons have teams exposed the Rudy match up ?

Sure he puts up nice stats in the regular season , doesn’t do much for us in the playoffs

Rudy is wide open on offence for a reason , he can’t catch a ball , he can’t finish outside of a dunk , he his team mates no longer trust passing him the ball outside of him dunking the ball

You sound like you work in Utah front office and don’t want to admit what our failings are … terrible basketball knowledge
 
I'm so tired of the Rudy apologists.

Elite playoff players don't rely on anybody else to have an impact on the offensive end. If Shaq or Duncan didn't get the feeds for them to post up, they were still getting amazingly timed offensive rebounds, putbacks, etc.

Elite players find a way to impose their elite abilities on the game. I've watched too many playoff minutes where Rudy just isn't impactful on defense and he's completely absent on offense.

This doesn't mean he is a bad player. I think he is a very good player. He just isn't elite. The only people who think he is elite are the Rudy apologists.

Stop saying we need to build a perfect team around Rudy. Those days should be gone. Build around Don.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
jazfan23 said:
Obviously you’re a stats guy , that doesn’t watch the game closely… how many post seasons have teams exposed the Rudy match up ?

Sure he puts up nice stats in the regular season , doesn’t do much for us in the playoffs

Rudy is wide open on offence for a reason , he can’t catch a ball , he can’t finish outside of a dunk , he his team mates no longer trust passing him the ball outside of him dunking the ball

You sound like you work in Utah front office and don’t want to admit what our failings are … terrible basketball knowledge
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Lmfao

You watch 3 games and think you're an expert. And you apparently haven't even read a single post of mine. What an idiot.

The problem is far more about who is around Gobert than Gobert himself. Last year it was our perimeter D that was exposed and it was a guard going off for multiple 50-point games and just plain blowing by anyone in front of him, and not even that great of a guard. We made Murray look like Jordan and that wasn't Gobert, that was on our perimeter defenders, who all suck.

So you keep armchairing it. You can ignore all the times Gobert has bailed out his teammates because they can't guard a mannequin and just blame everything on Gobert not having a hook shot, even though we had one of the best offensive ratings in the playoffs and the 2nd best in the regular season, while our defensive rating is 30 points worse with Gobert off the court.

But yeah, it's all Gobert's fault. Let's get Drummond since he can post up and I'm sure we'll have multiple rings while everyone scores 150 on us every night.

****ing moran.
 
LoPo said:
I'm so tired of the Rudy apologists.

Elite playoff players don't rely on anybody else to have an impact on the offensive end. If Shaq or Duncan didn't get the feeds for them to post up, they were still getting amazingly timed offensive rebounds, putbacks, etc.

Elite players find a way to impose their elite abilities on the game. I've watched too many playoff minutes where Rudy just isn't impactful on defense and he's completely absent on offense.

This doesn't mean he is a bad player. I think he is a very good player. He just isn't elite. The only people who think he is elite are the Rudy apologists.

Stop saying we need to build a perfect team around Rudy. Those days should be gone. Build around Don.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
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Yes Jordan won 13 rings from the moment he entered the NBA because elite players just win all the rings. Teams don't matter, just elite players doing elite things winning all the rings.

I don't think Rudy is the greatest player of all time. He is limited in many ways, and he needs to figure out a way to have more of an impact. But to lay the entire blame of two epic playoff meltdowns at his feet when both times it was perimeter players that killed us is ludicrous in the extreme.

We should absolutely build around Donovan, but the truth is if we had a player more like grant or even Brogdon or holiday rather than Conley or even bogdanovich there is a really good chance we win this and this discussion is much different.

Hell if we had healthy players all the way through we likely advance just on force of will alone.

But what got exposed is we aren't built for a deep playoff run. We're built to have a high floor and limited ceiling. But we need to retool to raise our ceiling even if it hurts the floor.

And if that means moving Gobert in a deal that makes sense then so be it.

But the ridiculous idiots are the pure haters that think that if Gobert just guarded the 3 point line like a guard, and frankly better than any of our guards can or do, oh and as long as he can make a hook shot, well then we have a championship in the making.

What a load of *********.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Yes Jordan won 13 rings from the moment he entered the NBA because elite players just win all the rings. Teams don't matter, just elite players doing elite things winning all the rings.

I don't think Rudy is the greatest player of all time. He is limited in many ways, and he needs to figure out a way to have more of an impact. But to lay the entire blame of two epic playoff meltdowns at his feet when both times it was perimeter players that killed us is ludicrous in the extreme.

We should absolutely build around Donovan, but the truth is if we had a player more like grant or even Brogdon or holiday rather than Conley or even bogdanovich there is a really good chance we win this and this discussion is much different.

Hell if we had healthy players all the way through we likely advance just on force of will alone.

But what got exposed is we aren't built for a deep playoff run. We're built to have a high floor and limited ceiling. But we need to retool to raise our ceiling even if it hurts the floor.

And if that means moving Gobert in a deal that makes sense then so be it.

But the ridiculous idiots are the pure haters that think that if Gobert just guarded the 3 point line like a guard, and frankly better than any of our guards can or do, oh and as long as he can make a hook shot, well then we have a championship in the making.

What a load of *********.
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I'm not blaming our losses on Rudy.

I'm not saying he is a bad player.

I'm just saying he is what he is - a solid playoff player. And people should stop saying we should build some team around Rudy. To build a team around Rudy, we have to have a number of good two way players.

Hell, we can build around anybody with a number of good two way players.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LogGrad98 said:
Lmfao

You watch 3 games and think you're an expert. And you apparently haven't even read a single post of mine. What an idiot.

The problem is far more about who is around Gobert than Gobert himself. Last year it was our perimeter D that was exposed and it was a guard going off for multiple 50-point games and just plain blowing by anyone in front of him, and not even that great of a guard. We made Murray look like Jordan and that wasn't Gobert, that was on our perimeter defenders, who all suck.

So you keep armchairing it. You can ignore all the times Gobert has bailed out his teammates because they can't guard a mannequin and just blame everything on Gobert not having a hook shot, even though we had one of the best offensive ratings in the playoffs and the 2nd best in the regular season, while our defensive rating is 30 points worse with Gobert off the court.

But yeah, it's all Gobert's fault. Let's get Drummond since he can post up and I'm sure we'll have multiple rings while everyone scores 150 on us every night.

****ing moran.
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You’re showing your inability and lack of intelligence and resort to swearing because your lack of basketball knowledge is showing

I haven’t watched 3 games … I’ve watched most games since the late 80s …

I love Rudy , but you’re making out he does everything defensively , it’s not true

Teams isolate him on the defensive end … they aren’t afraid to take it to the rim anymore against him … Mann did an almighty dunk over the top of him , as did a lot of other players this year , players aren’t afraid of him .

On offence , he comes out sets a screen … how many times have you seen mitchell or Conley give him the ball at the FT line only to fumble it or get stripped ? You cannot pass him the ball unless he is in the paint going up for a dunk …
 
Rudy needs to stay in the paint to be effective on defense. The clippers beat our perimeter defenders, pulled gobert 2 steps into the paint, and they kicked to his side for uncontested threes. They did it over and over and over again.

Our perimeter defenders should have manned up on the perimeter so there would be no one to kick out to and we should have relied on gobert 1 on 1 at the rim.

If we trade gobert for Gobert minus 15% and get a small ball solution at the same time while saving $100,000,000.. I would think long and hard about it. Jarret Allen and Larry Nance for Gobert makes some sense to me.

Offensively, Gobert can't punish Batum and George. As the series went on they just sent Reggie Jackson to guard Gobert and he couldn't punish him either. Definition of the lack of punishing small ball.

Gobert and Quin have work to do.

We could use more versatile pieces.
 
jazfan23 said:
Teams isolate him on the defensive end … they aren’t afraid to take it to the rim anymore against him … Mann did an almighty dunk over the top of him , as did a lot of other players this year , players aren’t afraid of him .
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Everyone gets dunked on from time to time. It's still a much worse shot against Gobert than any other player in the league.
 
One Brow said:
That makes us a worse team, at least right now.
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For playoff seeding, I agree with you. For the playoffs....

If we traded Rudy for two capable two-way wings, I think we have a better shot of winning a title with some luck than we do with Rudy and our current roster around him.
 
LoPo said:
Stop saying we need to build a perfect team around Rudy. Those days should be gone. Build around Don.
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I really don't understand what you're talking about, besides that you want to go to war about Rudy which is nothing new. What are the players that would be good to build around Rudy with that would be bad for Donovan? There is no mutual exclusivity that I can think of off the top of my head at all.
 
One Brow said:
How would Gobert having an additional offensive repertoire have prevented Jackson/George/Beverly/etc. from getting to the hoop at will?


Defensively, they limited Gobert by denying passing lanes to the ball-handler. How does an additional offensive repertoire change that?


When we go small, other types drive to the hoop at will. Why can't we do the same when the Clippers go small? What did they do, that we don't?
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Agreed. While Utah's offensive plays were slow to adapt to L.A's defense, and never adapted well, we have enough firepower that we scored enough points.

Our defense was by far the bigger problem, and very few adjustments were made.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I really don't understand what you're talking about, besides that you want to go to war about Rudy which is nothing new. What are the players that would be good to build around Rudy with that would be bad for Donovan? There is no mutual exclusivity that I can think of off the top of my head at all.
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These guys aren't "bad" for Don, but they aren't guys who support a Don led initiative.

Mike Conley

Ball dominant
Had zero history being a spot up shooter and took him over a year to really figure out that role
Not a good defender
Didn't let Don be the smallest guy on the court and worst defender

Jordan Clarkson

Simply a ball dominant scorer
Not really a spot up shooter but is okay there
If he existed to spell Don 12 minutes a game, fine. But his role, contract, everything requires him to play 24 mpg or more. He simply doesn't fit well next to Don.

Derrick Favors

We signed him to back up Rudy
We signed him to be Rudy light

I think the only guy on the team that was added due to Don Mitchell was Royce. He and Don were friends, and Don backed him to become a better NBA player. Without their friendship, would Royce have really been given a chance? Many wanted to dump him. If we had another Royce for Conley and another Royce for Clarkson and another Royce type for Favors, I argue we would be just as good for playoff basketball as with Clarkson, Favors and Conley.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Rudy needs to stay in the paint to be effective on defense. The clippers beat our perimeter defenders, pulled gobert 2 steps into the paint, and they kicked to his side for uncontested threes. They did it over and over and over again.

Our perimeter defenders should have manned up on the perimeter so there would be no one to kick out to and we should have relied on gobert 1 on 1 at the rim.

If we trade gobert for Gobert minus 15% and get a small ball solution at the same time while saving $100,000,000.. I would think long and hard about it. Jarret Allen and Larry Nance for Gobert makes some sense to me.

Offensively, Gobert can't punish Batum and George. As the series went on they just sent Reggie Jackson to guard Gobert and he couldn't punish him either. Definition of the lack of punishing small ball.

Gobert and Quin have work to do.

We could use more versatile pieces.
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There is something to this general idea. Rudy is fine as a piece on a championship contender but at his current cap number you can’t get the other pieces that make you versatile enough to meet every type of matchup. Conley being hurt on a big deal also causes issues... so you have two key guys that can have a limited playoff impact eating up like 50% of the cap.

Jarrett Allen and Nance are solid targets if we did pivot from Rudy. Nance is really versatile. I could see the Cavs doing that... they seem like they are wanting to shortcut the rebuild right now. Might just be smoke but have heard the pick is available for a win now type of move. Issue with the deal is I don’t think Rudy can be traded until October because of the extension and Allen’s free agency will be done well ahead of that. So it’d have to be a during season trade which is a big pivot to do in season.
 
What's up with Rudy can't be traded till October
Why would a team do that kind of contract
That seems like worst time to trade a player
 
slc said:
What's up with Rudy can't be traded till October
Why would a team do that kind of contract
That seems like worst time to trade a player
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Because of his extension.

Depends on the team. If Charlotte completely strikes out in free agency, and they can't find a big man they want, Rudy is absolutely perfect for them in October. They have the cap space, flexibility, young assets to trade, and draft picks to make that trade worth it for both sides.

Rudy with LaMelo in the East is a really good fit.
 
Can't trade Rudy until October but a deal could be done ahead of that, then the moves made in October if that was deemed the best for the team.

But everyone needs to be prepared for 2021 v 2.0 this next year. Doubtful the jazz make any significant moves, primarily due to the injuries, other than finding another small point guard to replace Conley when he walks. That's the jazz way.

I really hope the new ownership group has an impact on this and we get some real changes. But I doubt it.
 
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