What's new
By:
Filters

Extra Insight: Donovan's Power Move Destroyed the Lockeroom

whatthe said:
In the same press conference where it was announced that Mike Elliot was let go for personal reasons, Justin Zanek made the declaration that the team, management and *trainer staff* was 100% vaccinated (note that Mike's replacement had not yet been hired so him leaving was very noteworthy) and it was the only team in the league to achieve it (who would be impressed by this personal health status that was currently in the office; maybe a message to players before training camp started?). Zanek also said strongly that Mike Elliot was not let go due to the controversy around Donovan's ankle during the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Give it up MT Steve. I said Zanik said "personal reasons". I think vaccination status falls under that. I honestly don't get your lying accusation. He may have been artful with his words but he wasn't lying.
 
whatthe said:
Give it up MT Steve. I said Zanik said "personal reasons". I think vaccination status falls under that. I honestly don't get your lying accusation. He may have been artful with his words but he wasn't lying.
Click to expand...

... I posted the exact quote from Zanik before. Here's the relevant part: “Mike decided he wanted to pursue some other opportunities."

You're just being obtuse at this point.
 
Not sure who it was, but I heard something similar last week on Utah sports radio(it was one of the beat reporters - possibly Andy Larsen, but not 100% certain) - a lot of players loved Mike Elliot and were upset because he was let go. I think one of the players that was specifically mentioned was Joe Ingles who specifically mentioned Elliot when he got injured in relation to his recovery, even though Elliot had already been let go.

I'm not sure how much the locker room toxicity is attributable to Donovan wanting Elliot gone and pissing off teammates who loved the guy, but IMO there is at least a little bit of smoke there...
 
Last edited:
stitches said:
Not sure who it was, but I heard something similar last week on Utah sports radio(it was one of the beat reporters - possibly Andy Larsen, but not 100% certain) - a lot of players loved Mike Elliot and were upset because he was let go. I think one of the players that was specifically mentioned was Joe Ingles who specifically mentioned Elliot when he got injured in relation to his recovery, even though Elliot had already been let go.

I'm not sure how much the locker room toxicity is attributable to Donovan wanting Elliot gone and pissing off teammates who loved the guy, but IMO there is at least a little bit of smoke there...
Click to expand...
Ingles rehabbed with Elliot I believe.

Players' bodies are their career. You **** with that and you piss them off. Donovan got a highly respected trainer fired. He ****ed with everyone's health because of his feelings.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Ingles rehabbed with Elliot I believe.

Players' bodies are their career. You **** with that and you piss them off. Donovan got a highly respected trainer fired. He ****ed with everyone's health because of his feelings.
Click to expand...
Someone wants to **** with my body, well.... I'm open to it.
 
stitches said:
Not sure who it was, but I heard something similar last week on Utah sports radio(it was one of the beat reporters - possibly Andy Larsen, but not 100% certain) - a lot of players loved Mike Elliot and were upset because he was let go. I think one of the players that was specifically mentioned was Joe Ingles who specifically mentioned Elliot when he got injured in relation to his recovery, even though Elliot had already been let go.

I'm not sure how much the locker room toxicity is attributable to Donovan wanting Elliot gone and pissing off teammates who loved the guy, but IMO there is at least a little bit of smoke there...
Click to expand...
It had to contribute to the locker room issue if others like and trusted Elliot. It also brings back up the Tony Jones comment when Joe was traded about Joe being the only person in the locker room who could stand up to Donny. Smith gave Donny the keys and I am not sure he was ready to drive. I really believe some of the locker room issue is on the way Smith handled Donny.
 
gomretat said:
It had to contribute to the locker room issue if others like and trusted Elliot. It also brings back up the Tony Jones comment when Joe was traded about Joe being the only person in the locker room who could stand up to Donny. Smith gave Donny the keys and I am not sure he was ready to drive. I really believe some of the locker room issue is on the way Smith handled Donny.
Click to expand...
I just think it’s really funny how some fans can hear the organization’s mouthpiece and varnisher of truth, Tony Jones, tell everyone that Donovan Mitchell is someone that requires standing up to and they think we need to build around that garbage.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I just think it’s really funny how some fans can hear the organization’s mouthpiece and varnisher of truth, Tony Jones, tell everyone that Donovan Mitchell is someone that requires standing up to and they think we need to build around that garbage.
Click to expand...
Tony Jones isn't any kind of trusted source on tangible information. He's good at hinting at feelings, but I don't trust him to be unbiased. He's like a fan with a voice instead of a true news source.

His comment about "Joe is the only one who could tell Don no" could have 100 different connotations - on court, off court, menu, arguments, personality, likes, dislikes, 1 on 1, whole team, locker room, etc etc etc etc etc. Implying that Don got a yes from everybody in the entire organization except for Joe Ingles for everything Don wanted is so incredibly bogus.
 
LoPo said:
Tony Jones isn't any kind of trusted source on tangible information. He's good at hinting at feelings, but I don't trust him to be unbiased. He's like a fan with a voice instead of a true news source.

His comment about "Joe is the only one who could tell Don no" could have 100 different connotations - on court, off court, menu, arguments, personality, likes, dislikes, 1 on 1, whole team, locker room, etc etc etc etc etc. Implying that Don got a yes from everybody in the entire organization except for Joe Ingles for everything Don wanted is so incredibly bogus.
Click to expand...
Idk, Don's behavior on the court changed dramatically after Joe left. He became a black hole on offense, especially at the end of games where he became the worst clutch player in the league by a mile. No way to know how much was Joe's influence, but it sure is interesting we see a true change on the court after we trade Joe, even when he hadn't been playing for a while due to his injury and the play hadn't really changed that much until he was actually traded. Then the blender stopped, and the end of game melt-downs became not just more frequent but damn near inevitable. If Joe were a solid locker-room presence, for whatever reason, then what we saw on the court sure makes sense in that context when he left.

Point is there is actual tangible documented and data-driven evidence as to a change in the team and DM's play. Now whether it is causation or correlation is fully up to debate, since we weren't in the locker room. But guys like Jones, even if he is just a glorified fan, had access we did not. So even if he is spinning this nicely, it still is pretty damning and fully fits the evidence available to us.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Idk, Don's behavior on the court changed dramatically after Joe left. He became a black hole on offense, especially at the end of games where he became the worst clutch player in the league by a mile. No way to know how much was Joe's influence, but it sure is interesting we see a true change on the court after we trade Joe, even when he hadn't been playing for a while due to his injury and the play hadn't really changed that much until he was actually traded. Then the blender stopped, and the end of game melt-downs became not just more frequent but damn near inevitable. If Joe were a solid locker-room presence, for whatever reason, then what we saw on the court sure makes sense in that context when he left.

Point is there is actual tangible documented and data-driven evidence as to a change in the team and DM's play. Now whether it is causation or correlation is fully up to debate, since we weren't in the locker room. But guys like Jones, even if he is just a glorified fan, had access we did not. So even if he is spinning this nicely, it still is pretty damning and fully fits the evidence available to us.
Click to expand...
Don had a poor end to the season. We all know that. His clutch numbers were terrible.

I think losing Joe the player was much more important than losing Joe the "only Don no teller" garbage being spun right now.

Quin only trusted 3 players down the stretch with the ball in their hands - Don, Conley and Joe. So take out Joe and what you got? Don and Conley. For as bad as Don was down the stretch of the season and in the playoffs, Conley was likely worse. Sure somebody will come up with some obscure stat that Conley might have had some statistical advantage here or there, but remember that Donovan Mitchell is guarded by the entire opposing team while Conley was guarded by one guy. That happens because Quin never diversified our offensive offerings down the stretch and we rolled out with the same predictable garbage. Bojan mitigated to a spot up shooter, Royce an unwilling offensive threat, and Rudy only viable in a small window of the lane.

Don struggled for a lot of reasons, and I don't believe the "Joe not being there to tell him no" was any main reason why.
 
LoPo said:
Don had a poor end to the season. We all know that. His clutch numbers were terrible.

I think losing Joe the player was much more important than losing Joe the "only Don no teller" garbage being spun right now.

Quin only trusted 3 players down the stretch with the ball in their hands - Don, Conley and Joe. So take out Joe and what you got? Don and Conley. For as bad as Don was down the stretch of the season and in the playoffs, Conley was likely worse. Sure somebody will come up with some obscure stat that Conley might have had some statistical advantage here or there, but remember that Donovan Mitchell is guarded by the entire opposing team while Conley was guarded by one guy. That happens because Quin never diversified our offensive offerings down the stretch and we rolled out with the same predictable garbage. Bojan mitigated to a spot up shooter, Royce an unwilling offensive threat, and Rudy only viable in a small window of the lane.

Don struggled for a lot of reasons, and I don't believe the "Joe not being there to tell him no" was any main reason why.
Click to expand...
So you are in the "correlation" camp. It sounds like Jones, with more insider knowledge than us, leans more toward the "causation" side of things.
 
LogGrad98 said:
So you are in the "correlation" camp. It sounds like Jones, with more insider knowledge than us, leans more toward the "causation" side of things.
Click to expand...
It's a correlation.

Only a coward would blame our issues last season on one player. It's as cowardly as blaming the Lakers' season on Russell Westbrook. Or even as cowardly as blaming the Nets' season all on Kyrie.
 
LoPo said:
It's a correlation.

Only a coward would blame our issues last season on one player. It's as cowardly as blaming the Lakers' season on Russell Westbrook. Or even as cowardly as blaming the Nets' season all on Kyrie.
Click to expand...
Ad hominem. Good tactic. Discredit anyone that disagrees with you with "you're an idiot" right up front.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Ad hominem. Good tactic. Discredit anyone that disagrees with you with "you're an idiot" right up front.
Click to expand...
Nah. Y'all are trying to say that our issues were all because of Donovan. I showed you why your stance was wrong. Then I gave my opinion on why people stoop to blame everything on one person instead of all the actual factors at hand.

ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/

adjective

  1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.



 
I'll be honest: The only time I ever see the idea that "Our issues were all because of Donovan" is when Lopo is using it to attack a strawman.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top