Coronavirus

[fishonjazz]

I actually think the government/health officials SHOULD lie to us about how bad it was in the beginning. I appreciate that. They are lacking in info and data. So I think its appropriate to over exaggerate how bad it is. I know at the beginning of the pandemic I was way more scared than necessary. Due to my fear (and other fears) I wasn't letting my family come over for my daughters birthday party or easter etc. Places were shut down. Kids were missing school. Masks were being worn by many. My dad just had his 80th birthday last week. Maybe he is dead right now if the government was like "there is a virus out there and some people are getting sick and some are even dying but its really not that bad and there is no need for any drastic measures. A mask could help but isn't really necessary. Social distancing might be a good idea but you do you. We certainly wont be shutting down any businesses or schools for something resembling the common flu"

I also know some people who never took it seriously and who died early on from covid. They didn't trust the governments fear mongering. Maybe they would be alive today if the government said "there is a virus out there and some people are getting sick and some are even dying but its really not that bad and there is no need for any drastic measures. A mask could help but isn't really necessary. Social distancing might be a good idea but you do you. We certainly wont be shutting down any businesses or schools for something resembling the common flu" because then they would have masked up and social distanced and been very afraid of covid. I doubt it though.

 

[Red]

I don’t understand how distrust in government and agencies, and reliance on falsehoods, helped save lives. The entire reflex, not the entire population, but the broad reaction that might be summarized as “don’t trust them, don’t listen to them. Ignore Fauci, do not get vaccinated!!!!”, how exactly did that save lives? I thought, during a global pandemic, that the central government should lead the way, and that the goal was to save lives. Instead, a broad response blaming the government for acting to minimize the loss of life, as if they were not even supposed to try….

Fauci criticizes 'extreme' ideological divide that has led to disproportionate Covid deaths among Republicans

The president's outgoing chief medical adviser told NBC News it was “unconscionable” that some people did not get vaccinated “based on political ideology.”

www.nbcnews.com

 

[fishonjazz]

Another great thing about masks is that they work even if they don't work at all.
When a co worker is wearing a mask at work it's an advertisement that he/she is sick! Could be COVID, could be the flu or just a cold but regardless I try to distance myself from them and spray alcohol on the computer keyboard, and chair armrests, and equipment that is used by everyone in my department. Which helps me to not get sick.

 

[Red]

Trump's lawyers say he is innocent and his acts were justified. Do you believe them? They are legal experts.

I don’t think you understand what I was talking about, which was clearly trends toward rejection of authoritative sources in the modern era. Not sure which charges you would be referring to here; however, to this point in time I have not closely examined his attorney’s arguments in any of the cases brought against Trump. Nor do I see the relevance to the trends I was pointing out, which is why I did not think you understood my drift. Which was trends in our recent….CULTURAL….history. Which is fine, you don’t have to.

 

[fishonjazz]

Trump's lawyers say he is innocent and his acts were justified. Do you believe them? They are legal experts.

I know as much about how guilty or innocent he is as they do. I watched him. I listened to him. Pretty clear
When it comes to viruses I don't know much at all however.

Also trump being guilty or not isn't life or death. Not exactly apples to apples

Also defense lawyers interest is only to get a not guilty for their client.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I actually think the government/health officials SHOULD lie to us

So you think the boy should cry wolf. You don't see the downside to being caught breaking the public trust.

 

[fishonjazz]

So you think the boy should cry wolf. You don't see the downside to being caught breaking the public trust.

Yep. I have lied to keep someone safe before. She still trusts me.
Did this lie save my dad's life? Possibly. And for that I say thanks.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I don’t understand how distrust in government and agencies, and reliance on falsehoods, helped save lives.

How many people did COVID kill? Fauci's name is all over the grants paying for the clearly gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology that many now admit likely lead to the creation of SARS-CoV-2 despite clear prohibitions against funding such research. Maybe if there had been a little more healthy distrust of Fauci a lot of people would be alive.

 

[fishonjazz]

How many people did COVID kill? Fauci's name is all over the grants paying for the clearly gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology that many now admit likely lead to the creation of SARS-CoV-2 despite clear prohibitions against funding such research. Maybe if there had been a little more healthy distrust of Fauci a lot of people would be alive.

I know 2 people who died plus a handful who were hospitalized and came close to dying. Literally each and every one of them had the utmost distrust of fauci and all government not name trump.
One of them, to their credit, after almost dying decided to trust fauci and the Heath officials more and decided to mask up and even ended up getting vaccinated. Turns out he was more anti nearly dying than he was anti fauci

 

[Red]

Trump's lawyers say he is innocent and his acts were justified. Do you believe them? They are legal experts.

I don’t think you understand what I was talking about, which was clearly trends toward rejection of authoritative sources in the modern era. Not sure which charges you would be referring to here; however, to this point in time I have not closely examined his attorney’s arguments in any of the cases brought against Trump. Nor do I see the relevance to the trends I was pointing out, which is why I did not think you understood my drift. Which was trends in our recent….CULTURAL….history. Which is fine, you don’t have to.

Dr. Hoopes can likely explain where I was coming from, better than I can myself. He understands the “substrate” of distrust I was thinking of. I’m more directly involved in this specific area of disinformation, and combating the sowing of mistrust of scientists that I was referring to:

“When audiences tune in by the millions to watch television shows such as “Ancient Apocalypse,” which purports to link global advancements made within the past millennia or two to what Hancock describes as a far older “civilization that was lost in the great cataclysms of flood and fire that we know occurred near the end of the last Ice Age,” they can find themselves enamored of, and comfortable with, the notion that scientists, experts, are hiding the real truth.

Hoopes, whom Hancock has called “the most vehement and insulting of all archaeologists,” terms it the “cultic milieu of conspiracy theory,” which, once embraced, opens the door to such real-world dangers as vaccination conspiracies and climate change and election denial.

“All of those things,” Hoopes says,“go together.”

‘Ancient Apocalypse’ and the consequence of conspiracy - Kansas Alumni Magazine

KU archaeologist John Hoopes not in the mood to laugh off pseudoscience as cheeky fun.

kansasalumnimagazine.org

 

[Red]

How many people did COVID kill? Fauci's name is all over the grants paying for the clearly gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology that many now admit likely lead to the creation of SARS-CoV-2 despite clear prohibitions against funding such research. Maybe if there had been a little more healthy distrust of Fauci a lot of people would be alive.

Yeah, Fauci been a favorite target of right wing whack jobs from the start. Silly me saw a nice guy who genuinely cared, and who was bewildered, as was I, by the response from all the nut jobs revolting at the thought the government was actually daring to ask everyone to think of others as well as themselves. Such a horrible affront on freedom, this notion of one for all and all for one.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Yeah, Fauci been a favorite target of right wing whack jobs from the start. Silly me saw a nice guy who genuinely cared, and who was bewildered, as was I, by the response from all the nut jobs revolting at the thought the government was actually daring to ask everyone to think of others as well as themselves. Such a horrible affront on freedom, this notion of one for all and all for one.

That 'nice guy who genuinely cared' financed a gain-of-function effort that resulted in, what the WHO counted in 2022 as, 15 million people dead after it leaked from WIV. Even Hitler only got 6 million. Then Dr. 'two-a-half-Hitlers' Fauci spearheaded a disinformation campaign to hide his culpability by using his grant awarding power to cudgel researchers into authoring a study that, we now know from the author's published Slack messages from the time the paper was being created, they didn't themselves believe. That is 15 million human beings dead, including 2 that FishOnJazz personally knew. Fauci is the poster child for why people shouldn't trust the government.

 

[Douchebag K]

Yeah, Fauci been a favorite target of right wing whack jobs from the start. Silly me saw a nice guy who genuinely cared, and who was bewildered, as was I, by the response from all the nut jobs revolting at the thought the government was actually daring to ask everyone to think of others as well as themselves. Such a horrible affront on freedom, this notion of one for all and all for one.

Sorry but that guy like so much of the US healthcare system has financial conflicts of interest let alone the lies and contradictory statements that he cannot be taken seriously

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Trump's lawyers say he is innocent and his acts were justified. Do you believe them? They are legal experts.

Dog they are lawyers.

 

[silesian]

Fauci's name is all over the grants paying for the clearly gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology that many now admit likely lead to the creation of SARS-CoV-2

Please post these documents with Fauci's name on them. Thank you.

 

[silesian]

There is a profound irony that the Trump vaccine, arguably the single most impactful policy of his administration, is roundly rejected by Trump supporters.

More irony is that the excess deaths from Trump supporters due to rejection of the Trump vaccine, has eliminated tens of thousands of Trump voters and could lose him the 2024 election.

You don't get more ironic than that.

 

[One Brow]

Wearing a mask is neither a service nor a shield. There has been no measurable benefit since Delta.

We have about 100 years of data on paper/surgical masks lowering transmission of water-droplet carried viruses. You have a couple of epidemiological studies of questionable import. I do not think Delta, nor any other covid variant, has changed the size of the water droplets a human expires. I will accept the results of a century of testing until given a better reason to reconsider.

 

[Gameface]

We have about 100 years of data on paper/surgical masks lowering transmission of water-droplet carried viruses. You have a couple of epidemiological studies of questionable import. I do not think Delta, nor any other covid variant, has changed the size of the water droplets a human expires. I will accept the results of a century of testing until given a better reason to reconsider.

Well I'm a lion, not a sheep, so I don't believe in reality like some beta male. So there!

 

[One Brow]

As COVID has evolved, it has been able to be suspended by ever smaller droplets.

Covid variants have not significantly changed the size/weight of the virus. What is your source for this claim?

Usually it is easy to see. If my local school district is touting the opinion of an expert they have under contract who happens to be saying the school district's actions were justified, I don't take that any differently than my local school district's legal expert, whom they have paid to be their lawyer, saying the school district's actions were justified.

The difference would be that the school board hired the expert to recommend the behavior, while the lawyer is trying to justify the behavior after-the-fact.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

We have about 100 years of data on paper/surgical masks lowering transmission of water-droplet carried viruses. You have a couple of epidemiological studies of questionable import. I do not think Delta, nor any other covid variant, has changed the size of the water droplets a human expires. I will accept the results of a century of testing until given a better reason to reconsider.

Humans emit all sizes of droplets. What newer variants of COVID have continuously increased is the viral load in a given size droplet. That has resulted in ever smaller droplets being capable of being infectious with each generation.

"So, if a smaller droplet, an aerosol, has less virus in it but if that virus is more infectious, you can get infected with the smaller droplets. When we saw [the virus] early on, you needed a larger dose of the virus, so it was much more important in protecting yourself from the larger droplets,” -- Dr. Bonnie Henry

Is Omicron airborne? Dr. Bonnie Henry weighs in

Omicron is spreading fast and can be transmitted through 'aerosols,' says B.C.'s top doc

www.vancouverisawesome.com

By the time Omicron hit the scene, the droplets are so small they aren't classified as droplets anymore but aerosols.

High amounts of SARS-CoV-2 in aerosols exhaled by patients with Omicron variant infection - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Now that COVID is infectious as an aerosol, N95 masks aren't effective and 6 feet of social distancing isn't effective. Sure there are studies from a hundred years ago but we've learned a thing or two since then. Even studies from 24 months ago are now out of date with all we've learned.