Coronavirus

[Douchebag K]

No, sorry, that will have to do….

Well it just comes as having gone off on a tangent bit really specifically related to what my comment was.

 

[Red]

WWII was a national crisis. Fair to say. Our federal government asked its citizens to help in the effort at home. Many women did, and were known as “Rosie the Riverter”. I wonder how many women in America, at that time, reacted with their nation’s call with “screw the war effort. This isn’t my war. How dare the govt. ask anything of me”? I guess there must have been some, pro-Nazis certainly, but the selflessness by all the “Rosie’s” in America is part of that war’s history. Can’t really say selflessness by Americans stands out in the same way in the reaction to the pandemic.

Rosie the Riveter Inspired Women to Serve in World War II

"Rosie the Riveter" was an iconic poster of a female factory worker flexing her muscle, exhorting other women to join the war effort with the declaration that "We Can Do It!"

www.defense.gov

That’s what I’m talking about. The astonishing selfishness of so many Americans when their government asked all of us to fight this pandemic together. I noticed. Others noticed. It too will be a part of the written history of this crisis.

 

[Red]

Well it just comes as having gone off on a tangent bit really specifically related to what my comment was.

I thought we were both talking about reactions to Fauci. In the long run, though I’m not saying I’ve thought my last about the subject, I did not trust the criticisms you likely do support against Fauci, which you alluded to. But, my point was, regardless of those criticisms, I found the initial rejection to be more politicized and based in what I perceived to be a selfish, non civic minded response by many, whereas I thought one for all, all for one was both a sensible, effective to a degree, and not really stripping people of freedom, approach. That so many Americans reacted in outright anger that their government agencies would recommend inconveniences in the interest of fighting a dangerous disease? Yeah, that stunned me….

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Mate I’m truly not sure what point you are specifically trying to make ? Any chance you could condense that post to a few points ???

Red is saying that he believed the government was asking the people for sacrifice in the interests of the greater good. He’s has painted in his mind a truly noble picture to justify his idea that anyone opposing it is bad, selfish, evil. It is a black and white world, and his side is the side of truth and light.

In Red’s world it doesn’t matter that the supposed side of truth and light likely created the pathogen. It doesn’t matter how negatively the actions effected the next generation academically or emotionally because the effort was “for the good of one and all”. Apparently the next generation isn’t included in the ‘all’.

Any observations that call into question Red’s mental image are simply discarded to maintain his version of the noble struggle and he wants you to see his picture. I see your picture Red. It is a nice picture.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Please share the study that led you to this conclusion.

Red posted references to some of them at the top of page 382 in this thread.

 

[fishonjazz]

I was shocked at the reaction by many, usually from the right, that governments asking it’s citizens to act in concert for the good of one and all, to combat a grave threat to one and all, was treated as an inexcusable effort by the government to simply ask way too much of them. How dare the government not only push masks mandates and vaccines, but how dare this government expect me to think of my fellow citizens in an unselfish manner? It’s as if the concept of social contract was foreign. Thinking of others is asking too much of Americans, not just asking them to wear a mask to protect themselves, but helping others is too much.

This. The other thing is that if people would have come together in our efforts then the government would have had to implement less which would make those who are so anti government involvement in our lives happy. Instead they chose selfishness which caused the government to feel the need to intervene more lol.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

We've learned what masks do and don't do. They are not good at filtering. They are good at disrupting airflow.

Since Delta, disrupting airflow doesn't actually do anything to prevent the transmission of COVID. Masks and airflow disrupting plexiglass panels don't have any measurable effect. To stop the modern variants of COVID requires a powered respirator. On the bright side, modern variants of COVID are far less deadly. The masks may have helped everybody get through the period of deadly COVID to now where we have less-deadly COVID, but using masks now with today's variants only serves your personal sense of security.

 

[One Brow]

When AIO made a homophobic post about Obama OB engaged as if that post was 100% factual and argued the minutia of AIOs point about Obama's homosexuality as if it were fact.

I really don't care if Obama is bisexual or not. I suppose I might have been blind to the homophobia behind. If you read this, thank you for calling it out.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I really don't care if Obama is bisexual or not. I suppose I might have been blind to the homophobia behind. If you read this, thank you for calling it out.

You weren't blind to anything. It wasn't homophobic. I interpreted it as an item in current public discourse suggesting a disconnect between an image and the real person. I don't care if anyone is gay but I do take issue with being phony.

Gameface is in pain and was more than a little drunk. He was lashing out at the entire world last night.

 

[One Brow]

Red posted references to some of them at the top of page 382 in this thread.

References that are saying masks work, but mask mandates or encouraging people to wear masks has little effect. I find the latter point believable, if disappointing.

Since Delta, disrupting airflow doesn't actually do anything to prevent the transmission of COVID. Masks and airflow disrupting plexiglass panels don't have any measurable effect.

Again, this runs counter to not only are knowledge of covid, but to diseases just as transmissible as the new covid strains. Masks have been studied against the spread of measles, for example, and are standard protocol for treating patients with measles.

If you are taking the point that the government encouraging people to wear masks was/is ineffective, I reluctantly agree. However, saying masks don't work is false and dangerous.

 

[One Brow]

I interpreted it as an item in current public discourse

Why would it be in the public discourse, if not for homophobia? Obama did not bring it up. Would you want your sexual desires from your college years to be broadcast on this forum (to be clear, I would condemn it if anyone but you presented them).

I don't care if anyone is gay but I do take issue with being phony.

Obama is a couple of years older than I. Being openly gay/bisexual in our younger days was dangerous, even more so in certain communities. If he closeted for self-protection, that isn't being phony. In the years of his Presidency, I don't ever recall a time when it seemed like his love for his wife was put-on or a front (nor did I detect that in either of Bushes, nor in Biden). Clinton and Trump are the phonies in their marriage, to my eyes.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

If you are taking the point that the government encouraging people to wear masks was/is ineffective, I reluctantly agree. However, saying masks don't work is false and dangerous.

First, it isn't government encouraging people that is ineffective, but comparing transmission in similar environments where people were universally masked versus transmission rates where no one masked. If you look at the attempts to talk around the data you'll see their primary argument is that people weren't wearing masks correctly, not that they weren't wearing them because they were wearing them. The masks on their faces did not make a measurable difference in the transmission of modern variants of COVID.

Secondly, that is the opposite of being false and dangerous. When hospitals noticed that N95 masks were no longer an effective countermeasure for stopping their staff from getting COVID, they switched to powered respirators which solved the problem. Taking in data, recognizing a changing situation, and adapting to the changes should not be condemned. It should be the goal.

 

[fishonjazz]

they switched to powered respirators which solved the problem.

OMG can you imagine the outrage by those on the right if the government try to get them to wear powered respirators? If they thought masks were a huge hinderance and inconvenience then holy hell they would hate that.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

OMG can you imagine the outrage by those on the right if the government try to get them to wear powered respirators? If they thought masks were a huge hinderance and inconvenience then holy hell they would hate that.

what if the government incorporated the powered respirators into dinosaur costumes?

 

[fishonjazz]

what if the government incorporated the powered respirators into dinosaur costumes?

Well, that would be pretty sweet

 

[One Brow]

First, it isn't government encouraging people that is ineffective, but comparing transmission in similar environments where people were universally masked versus transmission rates where no one masked. If you look at the attempts to talk around the data you'll see their primary argument is that people weren't wearing masks correctly, not that they weren't wearing them because they were wearing them. The masks on their faces did not make a measurable difference in the transmission of modern variants of COVID.

The review in question.

Authors' conclusions​

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children.

The study authors mentioned that their findings were limited by the issue of mask adherence. People aren't talking around the data, they are referring to the study in this regard. Secondly, data in this study comes from pre-covid, early covid, and late covid. The authors made no mention of decreasing mask effectiveness over time. You have presented no evidence that masking has become less effective over time.

There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection. Hand hygiene is likely to modestly reduce the burden of respiratory illness, and although this effect was also present when ILI and laboratory‐confirmed influenza were analysed separately, it was not found to be a significant difference for the latter two outcomes. Harms associated with physical interventions were under‐investigated.

Secondly, that is the opposite of being false and dangerous. When hospitals noticed that N95 masks were no longer an effective countermeasure for stopping their staff from getting COVID, they switched to powered respirators which solved the problem. Taking in data, recognizing a changing situation, and adapting to the changes should not be condemned. It should be the goal.

All the hospital staff treating covid were/are walking around with powered respirators? I think not.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

All the hospital staff treating covid were/are walking around with powered respirators? I think not.

They were at all the hospitals in my area. I came about the information of N95 masks becoming less effective against modern variants because I saw hospital staff wearing the things and asked. They didn't look like most of the images of powered respirators I find online, but instead looked to be like a canister on their belt with a hose leading to a clear, soft plastic bubble on their head. They looked like girls in hair dryers at a beauty salon with the thing on their head pulled down to their neck instead of their hairline. Their faces were clearly visible and you could hear them talk. For communication with patients and family it actually worked better than a mask.

 

[fishonjazz]

MSN

www.msn.com

Just weeks into the new school year, districts in multiple states are canceling in-person classes for several weeks due to respiratory viruses, including COVID-19, among students and staff.

Two school districts in Kentucky -- Lee County School District and Magoffin County Schools -- said they were closing due to "widespread illness."

"Lee County had a surge of cases and attendance dropped below the threshold needed to stay open, so they closed."

 

[Douchebag K]

MSN

www.msn.com

Just weeks into the new school year, districts in multiple states are canceling in-person classes for several weeks due to respiratory viruses, including COVID-19, among students and staff.

Two school districts in Kentucky -- Lee County School District and Magoffin County Schools -- said they were closing due to "widespread illness."

"Lee County had a surge of cases and attendance dropped below the threshold needed to stay open, so they closed."

so this is the new norm ?? geez

 

[Douchebag K]

WWII was a national crisis. Fair to say. Our federal government asked its citizens to help in the effort at home. Many women did, and were known as “Rosie the Riverter”. I wonder how many women in America, at that time, reacted with their nation’s call with “screw the war effort. This isn’t my war. How dare the govt. ask anything of me”? I guess there must have been some, pro-Nazis certainly, but the selflessness by all the “Rosie’s” in America is part of that war’s history. Can’t really say selflessness by Americans stands out in the same way in the reaction to the pandemic.

Rosie the Riveter Inspired Women to Serve in World War II

"Rosie the Riveter" was an iconic poster of a female factory worker flexing her muscle, exhorting other women to join the war effort with the declaration that "We Can Do It!"

www.defense.gov

That’s what I’m talking about. The astonishing selfishness of so many Americans when their government asked all of us to fight this pandemic together. I noticed. Others noticed. It too will be a part of the written history of this crisis.

dude all i was talking about was the bizarre conflicts of interest / blatant pay for play that exists in particularly the US healthcare system.