Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
What championship winning star has been drafted in the second round?
The Jazz would also have been improving their own pick. They got nothing for letting Al and Paul walk.What championship winning star has been drafted in the second round?
2. I simply don't buy that there wasn't a team out there willing to give up at least a second round pick for Al/Sap without giving up longterm salary. I've gone through the teams/cap situation, and there are several trades that can be put together. Once again, the Jazz got nothing for Al and Sap.
1. Trading Al and/or Sap wouldn't have affected their ability to pull off the GS trade if they only received players on expiring deals.This is immaterial. The Jazz got plenty of draft picks by trading the capspace that they received by purging their payroll of Sap and Jeff to Golden State. I'm pretty certain that we wouldn't have gotten 2 unprotected firsts and 2 seconds for trading those guys at the deadline, so this was actually a win for DL. Functionally we traded AL and Paul for Hood and 3 guys we will get later. Had we traded them during the lockout year, I agree we could have possibly gotten some players back that might have been building blocks, but I kind of like the draft picks better (because I'll always take what is behind box #3)
How many teams without cap space in the summer of 2013 would have jumped at Millsap at his current salary? Bird. Rights.Yep, I actually just logged back in to correct my mistake. So a limited market to allow teams to exceed the cap to re-sign either. However, given their salaries and the lack of interest, I would say it was a VERY small market. Millsap had virtually zero suitors until Utah made the GS deal. Then he hastily accepted the low Atlanta offer. And I don't recall a ton of teams clamoring to sign Jefferson. Charlotte was able to get him no problem.
1. Trading Al and/or Sap wouldn't have affected their ability to pull off the GS trade if they didn't take back anything but expiring contracts.
2. The Jazz also would have improved their draft pick.
Given that it wasn't really until around the trade deadline and after, GVC, that the Jazz weren't playoff contenders that year, it would have been a complete firestorm for the Jazz to have thrown up their hands and said "we're blowing it up" and trading their best players and completely torn down the team for a couple of second round picks.
Restarting after the season was the better alternative.
How many teams without cap space in the summer of 2013 would have jumped at Millsap at his current salary? Bird. Rights.
Didn't say that. Certainly if we never had a "superstar" but had all-star quality starters plus a talented bench, we'd be competitive. Conversely, you can have a superstar but be terrible (New York, Brooklyn). But I say the goal is to be at least competitive in the playoffs. Was it entertaining to get swept by the Lakers and miss the playoffs with our "veteran" team? Would our f ate have been any different with a team led by Millsap, Hayward, Favors and fill-in vets? That's a mid-tier team. Maybe an 8th seed, or one that gets a late lottery pick.And? I'm addressing freak and stifle. Stifle has asserted that the only way the Jazz will ever build a contender is by drafting a superstar. If that's the case, and you believe that winning a championship is the only thing that matters, you do whatever you can to get more draft picks and to better your draft position.
ThisThat is an awful tight needle to thread. How many teams had a need for a few month rental of those guys that also had expirings they could give up, AND had assets that we wanted?
Even if I accept this and/or that any other move made by DL in isolation in the last 2+ years is understandable, it still looks like:This
Ya gvc, if the perfect situation was out there and the jazz passed it up then they made a mistake.
Extremely unlikely
Even if I accept this and/or that any other move made by DL in isolation in the last 2+ years is understandable, it still looks like:
1. The Jazz are further away (in terms of total assets) from building a contender today than they were in the summer of 2012.
2. The on-court product is ****.
Given those two conclusions, I simply can't agree that DL has done a good job thus far. While "incomplete" may be the most accurate grade for his performance, if pressed to give him an actual letter grade, there's no way I'm going above C.
Even if I accept this and/or that any other move made by DL in isolation in the last 2+ years is understandable, it still looks like:
1. The Jazz are further away (in terms of total assets) from building a contender today than they were in the summer of 2012.
2. The on-court product is ****.
Given those two conclusions, I simply can't agree that DL has done a good job thus far. While "incomplete" may be the most accurate grade for his performance, if pressed to give him an actual letter grade, there's no way I'm going above C.
Given that it wasn't really until around the trade deadline and after, GVC, that the Jazz weren't playoff contenders that year, it would have been a complete firestorm for the Jazz to have thrown up their hands and said "we're blowing it up" and trading their best players and completely torn down the team for a couple of second round picks.
After trading Deron for rebuilding pieces, Utah could have justified going into a full rebuild, especially considering that even with Deron, that team had regressed to the point they were looking to miss the playoffs. No doubt a lot of fans would have been pissed. Just like the Moronic GS fans that booed their FO during Mullin's jersey retirement, because they didn't like a rebuilding move that traded the present for the future. I'm pretty sure every single one of those fans would be glad their FO ignored what the fan base thought. It would have been a gamble, just like it was gamble to risk losing 2 borderline all-stars for nothing, when the odds where greatly in favor that rebuilding was inevitable. Just how much we lost on our choice of a gamble remains to be seen.
Sure, but when Williams was traded, Harris had two more years. Jefferson had two more years. Millsap had two more years. Bell had two more years. Rebuilding would have required EVERYONE to go, something that wasn't guaranteed and if you failed to get rid of everyone, then you're hamstrung by the contract. Harris had been an all star, so there was hope the Jazz could compete. Couldn't have traded all of them at the deadline. Jazz had 4 lotto picks coming in the next year, so there was youth and experience. So even more hope that the Jazz could rebuild on the fly. Why tear it down even more when Hayward and Favors were going into their second year, and Kanter and Burks just got drafted? Then the lockout happened, which made deal making incredibly difficult before the season started, then that year the Jazz made the playoffs, giving the Jazz front office more hope that this rebuild would work. Then 2012-2013 happened, which ended all of that. The loss in Memphis really solidified that the team was dead as constructed with Jefferson and Millsap as the lead. Then the rebuild started.
2 fringe all-stars and 4 cheap, controllable young lottery picks.What assets did they have in summer of 12?
After trading Deron for rebuilding pieces, Utah could have justified going into a full rebuild, especially considering that even with Deron, that team had regressed to the point they were looking to miss the playoffs. No doubt a lot of fans would have been pissed. Just like the short-sighted GS fans that booed their FO during Mullin's jersey retirement, because they didn't like a rebuilding move that traded the present for the future. I'm pretty sure every single one of those fans would be glad their FO ignored what the fan base thought. It would have been a gamble, just like it was gamble to risk losing 2 borderline all-stars for nothing, when the odds where greatly in favor that rebuilding was inevitable. Just how much we lost on our choice of a gamble remains to be seen.