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2024 NBA Draft Mega Thread

Ferguson_Mellochill said:
My issues with Castle:
** His athleticism won't be a big advantage for him at the NBA level.
** He probably won't get to the rim as easily. I get that he's got a mid-range game, but those aren't considered high-value looks.
** He's not a lead ball handler who beats defenders at this stage, though he is a ball mover. He would likely play off the ball for most teams and secondary playmake.
** He's a reluctant shooter from distance at the current stage. Teams will probably sag on him and dare him to shoot until he makes them guard.

I think he'll be a solid player overall. I just don't think he's a definite starter and a top-10 guy. I think he's more of a mid-teens or maybe late-teens guy. I think it would be hard to draft Castle ahead of someone like Knecht or Filipowski who have clear, high-value roles and a definite path to becoming starters. Now if there's just something special about the way Castle competes, and you think he can develop himself into the next Jimmy Butler, then great. I just think that's a risk that pushes him a bit later in the draft. And outside of that scenario happening, I'm wondering where's the upside? Is he Bruce Brown? Is he Justise Winslow?
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I wouldn't project him to the level of Jimmy Butler but I think he can be a Josh Howard caliber of player with a little more playmaking chops.
 
KqWIN said:
Too each their own… I have an extremely hard time believing it’s access to coaching that makes NBA able to develop or not.
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Its not a yes or no... like Kawhi may be awesome without Chip... he may not have been as awesome or as awesome as quick. Maybe his sauce is getting buy in but to assume the stuff has no impact or no variance in quality and just assume "well his PR guy is the reason he's so awesome lol" is pretty silly.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
My issues with Castle:
** His athleticism won't be a big advantage for him at the NBA level.
** He probably won't get to the rim as easily. I get that he's got a mid-range game, but those aren't considered high-value looks.
** He's not a lead ball handler who beats defenders at this stage, though he is a ball mover. He would likely play off the ball for most teams and secondary playmake.
** He's a reluctant shooter from distance at the current stage. Teams will probably sag on him and dare him to shoot until he makes them guard.

I think he'll be a solid player overall. I just don't think he's a definite starter and a top-10 guy. I think he's more of a mid-teens or maybe late-teens guy. I think it would be hard to draft Castle ahead of someone like Knecht or Filipowski who have clear, high-value roles and a definite path to becoming starters. Now if there's just something special about the way Castle competes, and you think he can develop himself into the next Jimmy Butler, then great. I just think that's a risk that pushes him a bit later in the draft. And outside of that scenario happening, I'm wondering where's the upside? Is he Bruce Brown? Is he Justise Winslow?
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I really dont have a great read on his athleticism currently. I think I think more of it than you do though. I also know he was dealing with knee issues early in the year. He has pretty excellent transition numbers which usually point towards being very athletic.

I really dont think he will have much of an issue getting to the rim in the NBA. He's got such a great body and for his size he is a pretty good ball-handler. Maybe he isnt a lead handler right away, but I think he could get there. Anyone the Jazz draft outside of Knecht is probably going to spend a lot of time in the G-League.

I think saying he is a late teens guy is just wild though, especially in this draft.
 
Just curious -- how do we interpret Derrick White in light of this shooting guru stuff? (big jump up in 3 after leaving Spurs, where he was mediocre for several years)
 

Indeed, Engelland did quite a job in refining Leonard’s shooting. Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich acknowledged Engelland’s work as one of the keys to unlocking the MVP in Leonard but, on the other hand, Coach Pop pointed out that then-Spurs player development coach Chad Forcier also played a pivotal role in it.

“[It’s] 50-50 between the two of them, and you can't exclude Kawhi because he's doing the work. As far as people who have gotten him there or helped get him there, those two guys are the ones,” Popovich said of Engelland and Forcier.
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Well the Jazz apparently have half of the shooting gurus who helped Kawhil. Are you happy now HH?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I really dont have a great read on his athleticism currently. I think I think more of it than you do though. I also know he was dealing with knee issues early in the year. He has pretty excellent transition numbers which usually point towards being very athletic.

I really dont think he will have much of an issue getting to the rim in the NBA. He's got such a great body and for his size he is a pretty good ball-handler. Maybe he isnt a lead handler right away, but I think he could get there. Anyone the Jazz draft outside of Knecht is probably going to spend a lot of time in the G-League.

I think saying he is a late teens guy is just wild though, especially in this draft.
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Yeah, maybe his range is like 12 - 16?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its not a yes or no... like Kawhi may be awesome without Chip... he may not have been as awesome or as awesome as quick. Maybe his sauce is getting buy in but to assume the stuff has no impact or no variance in quality and just assume "well his PR guy is the reason he's so awesome lol" is pretty silly.
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Handlogten's Heros said:
Its not a yes or no... like Kawhi may be awesome without Chip... he may not have been as awesome or as awesome as quick. Maybe his sauce is getting buy in but to assume the stuff has no impact or no variance in quality and just assume "well his PR guy is the reason he's so awesome lol" is pretty silly.
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You made the comparison to only being able to see someone for one month….yeah I feel confident that is a no as far as NBA players go. They’ve got guys all around them all day everyday that help them with their shooting. Access is not a problem. I’m certain there is plenty of investment into every NBA player’s shooting. Again, I think it comes down to innate ability and work. That’s the difference, not who their coach is or if they even have one.

Is there some exclusive circle that have the special sauce that make the difference even amongst guys who have all these resources? I doubt it. The idea of going out and getting a shot doctor is not something I believe in because I already believe they have shot doctors around them and I don’t believe in an exclusive group of shot doctors that will make the difference.
 
BTW we do have Chad Forcier who was the other guy associated with the Kawhi Leonard shooting improvement. So maybe we have that guy.
 
I feel like shooting is more about putting in the work rather than having some magical shooting coach. When you look at all the great shooters over the years you see a bunch of different shooting strokes but the one thing they all have in common is great touch and that simply comes from getting up thousands of shots a week. In reality I think a lot of players are just lazy when it comes to putting in the real work to hone their craft.
 
sip said:
I feel like shooting is more about putting in the work rather than having some magical shooting coach. When you look at all the great shooters over the years you see a bunch of different shooting strokes but the one thing they all have in common is great touch and that simply comes from getting up thousands of shots a week. In reality I think a lot of players are just lazy when it comes to putting in the real work to hone their craft.
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Work and innate potential. As with everything, two people can put the same amount of effort and work into something and they will not end up with the same level of skill. I actually doubt it’s being lazy for most NBA players who cannot shoot.
 
KqWIN said:
You made the comparison to only being able to see someone for one month….yeah I feel confident that is a no as far as NBA players go. They’ve got guys all around them all day everyday that help them with their shooting. Access is not a problem. I’m certain there is plenty of investment into every NBA player’s shooting. Again, I think it comes down to innate ability and work. That’s the difference, not who their coach is or if they even have one.

Is there some exclusive circle that have the special sauce that make the difference even amongst guys who have all these resources? I doubt it. The idea of going out and getting a shot doctor is not something I believe in because I already believe they have shot doctors around them and I don’t believe in an exclusive group of shot doctors that will make the difference.
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Yes because Cy brought up the private experts. Working with someone for a couple weeks who is an expert is different than having them at every shoot around. The guys they have around them all day every day are likely the team coaches. Doubt they all have a team of 3-4 guys that just hang around them all day to help with different things. If they have their own dudes with them every day I'm not sure how good those guys actually are.

I simply would be investing in guys that have a proven record of helping especially if I had a billion picks coming. If there is no actual difference... fine... I'd be cool spending the money just in case there was. Is there some exclusive group... nope... but just like Spo is a better coach than most of the league... if a guy has success over the long haul I will assume there are things they are doing that make a difference. Even if they all have the same manual.
 
sip said:
I feel like shooting is more about putting in the work rather than having some magical shooting coach. When you look at all the great shooters over the years you see a bunch of different shooting strokes but the one thing they all have in common is great touch and that simply comes from getting up thousands of shots a week. In reality I think a lot of players are just lazy when it comes to putting in the real work to hone their craft.
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Its a confluence of things. There are many reasons players fail or succeed at developing a shot. Innate ability, work, smart work, confidence, consistency, form, unique adjustments to their form...
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yes because Cy brought up the private experts. Working with someone for a couple weeks who is an expert is different than having them at every shoot around. The guys they have around them all day every day are likely the team coaches. Doubt they all have a team of 3-4 guys that just hang around them all day to help with different things. If they have their own dudes with them every day I'm not sure how good those guys actually are.

I simply would be investing in guys that have a proven record of helping especially if I had a billion picks coming. If there is no actual difference... fine... I'd be cool spending the money just in case there was. Is there some exclusive group... nope... but just like Spo is a better coach than most of the league... if a guy has success over the long haul I will assume there are things they are doing that make a difference. Even if they all have the same manual.
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You don’t even know how good the guys are that teams hire. I just don’t think there’s a magical shot doctor, whether it’s someone on IG or already on a team, that is going to make the difference for us. I also believe that there is heavy investment, from both the team and player side, already. The main reason I don’t think this conversation matters is because they are already doing it.
 
KqWIN said:
You don’t even know how good the guys are that teams hire. I just don’t think there’s a magical shot doctor, whether it’s someone on IG or already on a team, that is going to make the difference for us. I also believe that there is heavy investment, from both the team and player side, already. The main reason I don’t think this conversation matters is because they are already doing it.
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You don’t know how good or bad they are either. I’m pushing back on the idea that they are all the same… just like there are coaches and teachers that are of different quality. There may be heavy investment there… but just like Miami paying spo 11-12m and Detroit paying Monty 11-12M there may be a difference. While I don’t think any team could get Spo by overpaying… I think you might be able to get the best training and dev staff by doing it… and the overpay might be a worthwhile investment. This is not a jazz specific complaint of any kind… we are apparently bought into the snake oil cuz we have one of these guys on staff.

We assume these guys are doing it perfectly just like we assume they can’t **** up the math.
 
Watching Filipowski, his wingspan does limit him defensively. He's also not super bouncy. Players are willing to challenge him in the paint. Not the ideal defensive presence you'd want at the 5. Nice versatility and ability to score though.

And yeah, Proctor hasn't progressed that much. Not a priority. McCain hasn't been very visible either.
 
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Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Watching Filipowski, his wingspan does limit him defensively. He's also not super bouncy. Players are willing to challenge him in the paint. Not the ideal defensive presence you'd want at the 5. Nice versatility and ability to score though.

And yeah, Proctor hasn't progressed that much. Not a priority. McCain hasn't been very visible either.
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I'm not saying Flip is the next Joker; however, they probably said the same thing about Joker when he was in the draft.
 
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