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2022 NBA Draft Thread: We Going to Have a Pick! (lmao jk)

I think Ivey could be the best player in the top-5 and maybe the whole draft. Like, I’m not sure why he’s not Derrick Rose (who I have never been in love with but was undeniably an impactful player). It’s also a near-lock that Ivey will be there at #4 and the Kings have WAY too much stock sunk into young guards and are desperate to win now. Getting that pick might be low-hanging fruit if dealing Mitchell and helping to balance out their logjam of guards.

I guess what I’m getting at is trading Mitchell for Ivey, Barnes, Fox or Davion, and other draft assets could be the on-the-fly rebuild that seems impossible right now. I’d still rather just nuke it in order to maximize the next winning window but maybe that package could maximize this winning window also.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I think Ivey could be the best player in the top-5 and maybe the whole draft. Like, I’m not sure why he’s not Derrick Rose (who I have never been in love with but was undeniably an impactful player). It’s also a near-lock that Ivey will be there at #4 and the Kings have WAY too much stock sunk into young guards and are desperate to win now. Getting that pick might be low-hanging fruit if dealing Mitchell and helping to balance out their logjam of guards.

I guess what I’m getting at is trading Mitchell for Ivey, Barnes, Fox or Davion, and other draft assets could be the on-the-fly rebuild that seems impossible right now. I’d still rather just nuke it in order to maximize the next winning window but maybe that package could maximize this winning window also.
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Say Ivey is D Rose 2.0, this is pretty ****ing good as is, right?

Conley/Davion or Fox
Ivey/Clarkson
Barnes/Royce/House
Bojan/Royce/Gay
Gobert

You could probably swap out a number of those players fairly easily depending on what you’re willing to take back. Most notably, Royce would no longer be untouchable (how ****ing embarrassing is it that this is a thing?), and I’m sure re-routing Davion/Fox would be fairly easy.
 
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The Nuggets traded Green for a 1st round pick? We should get about 6 picks for Donovan then
 
NUMBERICA said:
I think Ivey could be the best player in the top-5 and maybe the whole draft. Like, I’m not sure why he’s not Derrick Rose (who I have never been in love with but was undeniably an impactful player). It’s also a near-lock that Ivey will be there at #4 and the Kings have WAY too much stock sunk into young guards and are desperate to win now. Getting that pick might be low-hanging fruit if dealing Mitchell and helping to balance out their logjam of guards.

I guess what I’m getting at is trading Mitchell for Ivey, Barnes, Fox or Davion, and other draft assets could be the on-the-fly rebuild that seems impossible right now. I’d still rather just nuke it in order to maximize the next winning window but maybe that package could maximize this winning window also.
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Why he's not Derrick Rose....oh boy.
 
KqWIN said:
Why he's not Derrick Rose....oh boy.
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Please elaborate. I get that comps can get real sloppy (and that translating is everything) but the outline is the same. Ivey is actually bigger and played better competition.
 
I think Ivey has the most talent in the draft I said earlier in the year he’s top-2 and he’s not #2.

The success of Morant only helps him and they play eerily similar. Having that type of speed, control and athleticism at that size is a thing of beauty.
 
Shad said:
The Nuggets traded Green for a 1st round pick? We should get about 6 picks for Donovan then
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They sent a more valuable 1st in the deal. Lets OKC improve that asset and make it available when it’s probably more useful for them.
 
I may be wrong here but if I was guaranteed Ivey I would trade Donovan for Davion, Ivey and Barnes alone. If Sacramento added picks that’s just gravy on top.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Please elaborate. I get that comps can get real sloppy but the outline is the same. Ivey is actually bigger and played better competition.
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Well, the first reason why I can see why he's not Derrick Rose is because Rose is literally the youngest player ever to win an MVP. Before he got injured he was on the path to being an all time great. It was unlikely that Derrick Rose became Derrick Rose, literally a one of a kind generational player.

Secondly, being bigger and playing better competition doesn't mean anything. Do you know how many players are bigger than Derrick Rose and also played better competition? I get it, that's not the only thing you're going off of. But stats are not a one to one comparison either. Zach Edey isn't Joel Embiid because he put up wayyyy better numbers at a similar high level of competition. You can do a million comparisons with just simple number comps and find yourself looking stupid. It's not that simple, and I know you know that.

Lastly, Ivey and Rose aren't the same type of players. Rose was THE lead guard his whole life. Everyone knew the type of player he was. Ivey is more of a combo guard who may or may not be able to be a lead guard in the pros. They are both elite athletes, and that is their best selling point, but they are by no means on the same level of playmakers. There's a reason why Rose was a no doubt number one pick even up against Michael Beasley who had an incredible season for KState.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I may be wrong here but if I was guaranteed Ivey I would trade Donovan for Davion, Ivey and Barnes alone. If Sacramento added picks that’s just gravy on top.
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I’m probably not as high on Ivey as you are (although I am in the middle of reassessing and seeing him in a rosier light [no pun intended]), but even if isn’t there, one of Jabari/Chet/Banquero is pretty ****ing fly.
 
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KqWIN said:
Well, the first reason why I can see why he's not Derrick Rose is because Rose is literally the youngest player ever to win an MVP. Before he got injured he was on the path to being an all time great. It was unlikely that Derrick Rose became Derrick Rose, literally a one of a kind generational player.

Secondly, being bigger and playing better competition doesn't mean anything. Do you know how many players are bigger than Derrick Rose and also played better competition? I get it, that's not the only thing you're going off of. But stats are not a one to one comparison either. Zach Edey isn't Joel Embiid because he put up wayyyy better numbers at a similar high level of competition. You can do a million comparisons with just simple number comps and find yourself looking stupid. It's not that simple, and I know you know that.

Lastly, Ivey and Rose aren't the same type of players. Rose was THE lead guard his whole life. Everyone knew the type of player he was. Ivey is more of a combo guard who may or may not be able to be a lead guard in the pros. They are both elite athletes, and that is their best selling point, but they are by no means on the same level of playmakers. There's a reason why Rose was a no doubt number one pick even up against Michael Beasley who had an incredible season for KState.
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I am no expert, but I read this mostly as “until he is Rose, he isn’t.”

I also think Rose is probably the weakest MVP of this century by a lot and that most of his ability came down to how explosive he was. I was never impressed by his vision and his shooting was always shaky. His defense was also pretty disappointing for his size and athleticism (though the argument that his burden on offense was too much isn’t the worst argument).

I guess a lot of this comes down to how one sees Rose.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I am no expert, but I read this mostly as “until he is Rose, he isn’t.”

I also think Rose is probably the weakest MVP of this century by a lot and that most of his ability came down to how explosive he was. I was never impressed by his vision and his shooting was always shaky. His defense was also pretty disappointing for his size and athleticism (though the argument that his burden on offense was too much isn’t the worst argument).

I guess a lot of this comes down to how one sees Rose.
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When you’re talking about an all time great player (that’s how his career started), yeah that’s fair reasoning. Whether or not he deserved that MVP, he was as an incredible player. Very few players should be assumed greatness. When something exceptional happens, there shouldn’t be an automatic assumption that it happens again. If that was true, there would be a million Gobert’s, Mitchell’s, Kawhi’s, and Booker’s walking around the league.

That’s also not the only argument I had, no idea why you chose to blatantly ignore the rest. At the very you’ve got to come up with better reasoning why Ivey is a shoe in to be an all time great player and become the exception. He’s bigger than Rose and played against tougher competition (which doesn’t actually mean anything as far as how good he is). Is that it?

He’s not even the same type of player like I said. They are both very athletic…ok. What else is a comparison? And what if we apply that logic to other comparisons. Can you tell me why Zach Edey isn’t Joel Embiid?
 
KqWIN said:
When you’re talking about an all time great player (that’s how his career started), yeah that’s fair reasoning. Whether or not he deserved that MVP, he was as an incredible player. Very few players should be assumed greatness. When something exceptional happens, there shouldn’t be an automatic assumption that it happens again. If that was true, there would be a million Gobert’s, Mitchell’s, Kawhi’s, and Booker’s walking around the league.

That’s also not the only argument I had, no idea why you chose to blatantly ignore the rest. At the very you’ve got to come up with better reasoning why Ivey is a shoe in to be an all time great player and become the exception. He’s bigger than Rose and played against tougher competition (which doesn’t actually mean anything as far as how good he is). Is that it?

He’s not even the same type of player like I said. They are both very athletic…ok. What else is a comparison? And what if we apply that logic to other comparisons. Can you tell me why Zach Edey isn’t Joel Embiid?
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I don’t know who Zach Edey is.

Most of what I saw with Rose was a tier-1 athlete that played with reckless abandon. I was never blown away by his skill outside of his work around the rim. He became a more skilled player over time but it never came anywhere close to making up for what he lost in his athleticism. What he has done since with his average (not sub-par) athleticism speaks to him not being an incredibly skilled NBA basketball player.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I don’t know who Zach Edey is.

Most of what I saw with Rose was a tier-1 athlete that played with reckless abandon. I was never blown away by his skill outside of his work around the rim. He became a more skilled player over time but it never came anywhere close to making up for what he lost in his athleticism.
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Not every tier 1 athlete who plus with reckless abandon turns into Derrick Rose. Not all of them turn into starters. There’s a big difference between Rose and Kris Dunn….both would fit under that description. There are even large differences between guys like Wall and Fox.

You don’t know who Zach Edey is because this shallow method of large generalizations isn’t a real way to project prospects.
 
KqWIN said:
Not every tier 1 athlete who plus with reckless abandon turns into Derrick Rose. Not all of them turn into starters. There’s a big difference between Rose and Kris Dunn….both would fit under that description. There are even large differences between guys like Wall and Fox.

You don’t know who Zach Edey is because this shallow method of large generalizations isn’t a real way to project prospects.
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Bro what.. you need to stop lmao. Kris Dunn? How does he fit under that description?

Zach Edey is not Embiid because literally all Edey can do is post moves. He can’t shoot, create, or play make like Embiid at all. How is that even a good analogy?

Kris Dunn was a senior who was more of creator and defender that was his big upside coming out of college.

Did you watch Jaden Ivey play this year? How can you not come away thinking he played like Rose/Morant?
 
Elizah Huge said:
Bro what.. you need to stop lmao. Kris Dunn? How does he fit under that description?

Zach Edey is not Embiid because literally all Edey can do is post moves. He can’t shoot, create, or play make like Embiid at all. How is that even a good analogy?

Kris Dunn was a senior who was more of creator and defender that was his big upside coming out of college.

Did you watch Jaden Ivey play this year? How can you not come away thinking he played like Rose/Morant?
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The description was tier one athlete who plays with reckless abandon. That is Kris Dunn. The point is that they are still nothing alike as players.

That is the same point being made for Edey. He had better production than Embiid. He’s also bigger. Does not mean a damn thing because they are nothing similar.

If these are the only things being used to compare players you’ll find yourself making silly comparisons.

It’s one thing to say that he plays like Derrick Rose, a different thing to say he “is Derrick Rose” meaning the same caliber of player. In this case, Ivey doesn’t play the same and I’m willing to bet he won’t be the youngest ever MVP of all time. Ivey is not a league guard, not yet anyways. Rose was already that player. There were no questions if Rose could be a lead ball handler. To play like Rose/Morant, Ivey would have to play a much different role than he did at Purdue.
 
Derrick Rose won an MVP and so did Russell Westbrook. What does that really mean in the grand scheme of things?

@KqWIN do you know what Rose’s stats were pre-injury? Donovan’s stats compare favorably to Rose.
 
Kris Dunn was a facilitator and a lockdown defender. That is quite the opposite of an athlete playing with reckless abandon.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Derrick Rose won an MVP and so did Russell Westbrook. What does that really mean in the grand scheme of things?

@KqWIN do you know what Rose’s stats were pre-injury? Donovan’s stats compare favorably to Rose.
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And so that means Ivey is also a lock to be an MVP? Got it.
 
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