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2022 NBA Draft Thread: We Going to Have a Pick! (lmao jk)

Elizah Huge said:
Kris Dunn was a facilitator and a lockdown defender. That is quite the opposite of an athlete playing with reckless abandon.
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Morant was the best facilitator in college basketball and didn’t play defense. Ivey is a high energy defense who was a combo guard and struggled with decision making. But sure, they are the same player.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I am no expert, but I read this mostly as “until he is Rose, he isn’t.”

I also think Rose is probably the weakest MVP of this century by a lot and that most of his ability came down to how explosive he was. I was never impressed by his vision and his shooting was always shaky. His defense was also pretty disappointing for his size and athleticism (though the argument that his burden on offense was too much isn’t the worst argument).

I guess a lot of this comes down to how one sees Rose.
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I think straight player to player comps are so tough. Can I see elements of Rose and Morant in open court. He's not near the passer those guys are. I think there is reason to believe he could be a player at Donovan's level at some point and some of the physical attributes are very helpful.
 
KqWIN said:
“I don’t see why he’s not Derrick Rose”. That’s what we’re talking about lmao.
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You do realize Derrick Rose wouldn’t be an MVP in today’s league right? He literally might be the worst MVP of the last 40+ years.
 
So comparing a player to someone automatically means that we think they are a lock to win the same accolades. Got it.
 
I think Ivey (if he works out) is more in the SGA, Donovan, type player tier.

One thing working for him is that he played with traditional bigs so the floor wasn't spaced... and college basketball is generally congested. I think in a re-draft he could be the top guy taken after he spends a couple seasons in the league with NBA spacing.

I like him quite a bit.
 
Elizah Huge said:
You do realize Derrick Rose wouldn’t be an MVP in today’s league right? He literally might be the worst MVP of the last 40+ years.
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You guys are too fixated on MVP…take away his MVP. You think Ivey is even a shoe in to be an all star in his first 3 years? Rose was a really great player and improved immensely early his career. If Rose did not win MVP, it would not change a thing about how absurd that assertion is.

Ivey didn’t even play the same a role as Rose/Morant. So even a strict playstype comp it falls short.
 
KqWIN said:
“I don’t see why he’s not Derrick Rose”. That’s what we’re talking about lmao.
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Calm down. You also didn't dispute that Rose was a weak MVP, which in other words means he probably should not have won the award were it not for the unique circumstances he won it in. How that translates to you as saying Ivey is a lock to win the MVP I could only guess.

If you think I am literally saying that Derrick Rose and Jaden Ivey are the same person then I do not think I am qualified to help you.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think Ivey (if he works out) is more in the SGA, Donovan, type player tier.

One thing working for him is that he played with traditional bigs so the floor wasn't spaced... and college basketball is generally congested. I think in a re-draft he could be the top guy taken after he spends a couple seasons in the league with NBA spacing.

I like him quite a bit.
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So you are essentially saying Ivey is a lock to make multiple all-star teams and average 25 PPG since you compared him to Donovan.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think Ivey (if he works out) is more in the SGA, Donovan, type player tier.

One thing working for him is that he played with traditional bigs so the floor wasn't spaced... and college basketball is generally congested. I think in a re-draft he could be the top guy taken after he spends a couple seasons in the league with NBA spacing.

I like him quite a bit.
Click to expand...

That could work out him, it’s hard to know how players will translate. I’ve just been reading a lot of concern on his playmaking/decision making and it’s been backed up by what I’ve watched. I think he’s kinda Oladipo-ish where if he can develop the ball skills he can be really good. That’s a high end outcome for him.

But it’s one thing to like him, another to start the assumption that he’s Derrick Rose until proven otherwise haha.
 
I've seen Victor Oladipo thrown out there as the comp for Ivey... I think that is closer.
 
KqWIN said:
You guys are too fixated on MVP…take away his MVP. You think Ivey is even a shoe in to be an all star in his first 3 years? Rose was a really great player and improved immensely early his career. If Rose did not win MVP, it would not change a thing about how absurd that assertion is.

Ivey didn’t even play the same a role as Rose/Morant. So even a strict playstype comp it falls short.
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We are too fixated on it? YOU are literally the one making weird statements like we said he’s a lock to win MVP lol. Get a grip dude you are off kilter right now.
 
KqWIN said:
That could work out him, it’s hard to know how players will translate. I’ve just been reading a lot of concern on his playmaking/decision making and it’s been backed up by what I’ve watched. I think he’s kinda Oladipo-ish where if he can develop the ball skills he can be really good. That’s a high end outcome for him.

But it’s one thing to like him, another to start the assumption that he’s Derrick Rose until proven otherwise haha.
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Ha... jinx... just threw out Oladipo.
 
Alright, well let me amend my statement since it's so important:

If Ivey is in the mold of *insert high-level extremely athletic scoring lead guard that may be an MVP candidate in a very specific set of circumstances or probably never is* then maybe the Jazz would be set.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Calm down. You also didn't dispute that Rose was a weak MVP, which in other words means he probably should not have won the award were it not for the unique circumstances he won it in. How that translates to you as saying Ivey is a lock to win the MVP I could only guess.

If you think I am literally saying that Derrick Rose and Jaden Ivey are the same person then I do not think I am qualified to help you.
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Well, you literally said “I don’t know how he isn’t Derrick Rose”. You wondered why I thought that was so heinous, and I told you why. It’s incredibly unlikely anyone reaches those levels and the logic used to justify that statement is weak.

If he didn’t win the MVP, it wouldn’t change my opinion at all. The reason why I bring it up is because it asserts how good he was. He maybe didn’t deserve that, but he did that at 22 in his third year. If he didn’t get injured, he would have been an elite player for the better part of a decade at least if he didn’t get injured. He also would have likely improved to heights he never was able to reach.

I don’t like D-Rose. Especially for his off the court stuff. But give that man his due. He was one of the best players in the league at 22 and only scratching the surface as a player. No one should start with Rose as the baseline.
 
Elizah Huge said:
So you are essentially saying Ivey is a lock to make multiple all-star teams and average 25 PPG since you compared him to Donovan.
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No... I am saying the upper end of his ceiling looks more like those types of players. Rose is a tricky one. He was basically pg version of Lebron before the injuries.

I think Ivey can be very good and I see why someone would say Rose/Morant because when they get downhill they are amazing. I think Ivey has some of that... but its why I don't love straight player to player comps because they are all different enough that its easy to poke holes.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Alright, well let me amend my statement since it's so important:

If Ivey is in the mold of *insert high-level extremely athletic scoring lead guard that may be an MVP candidate in a very specific set of circumstances or probably never is* then maybe the Jazz would be set.
Click to expand...
The point still stands... if Ivey becomes toward the higher end of his median outcome we'd be good.
 
KqWIN said:
Well, you literally said “I don’t know how he isn’t Derrick Rose”. You wondered why I thought that was so heinous, and I told you why. It’s incredibly unlikely anyone reaches those levels and the logic used to justify that statement is weak.

If he didn’t win the MVP, it wouldn’t change my opinion at all. The reason why I bring it up is because it asserts how good he was. He maybe didn’t deserve that, but he did that at 22 in his third year. If he didn’t get injured, he would have been an elite player for the better part of a decade at least if he didn’t get injured. He also would have likely improved to heights he never was able to reach.

I don’t like D-Rose. Especially for his off the court stuff. But give that man his due. He was one of the best players in the league at 22 and only scratching the surface as a player. No one should start with Rose as the baseline.
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Baseline? Just threw a name out there that others that know a lot more than me throw out there. c h i l l
 
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