RJF
Well-Known Member
I'm sure people who have no problem with the camps probably feel differently.
I wasn’t referring to the camps. If it were someone on the right, you wouldn’t be OK with it.
I'm sure people who have no problem with the camps probably feel differently.
I'm sure people who have no problem with the camps probably feel differently.
If it were someone on the right doing what? Calling the detention centers concentration camps? On the contrary, I'd applaud it. I don't understand what you're doing here?I wasn’t referring to the camps. If it were someone on the right, you wouldn’t be OK with it.
The people running the camps for one, the Trump administration and their supporters as well. I've seen plenty of people online defending these camps as necessary.Who are these people you speak of?
I don't think I've seen one person on here or my social media that's in favor for what we have going on or claim it doesn't need an improvement.
I think that many progressive forces are motivated to make the system disorderly and overwhelming.
Can you make an educated guess? My bet would be less than a majority understand the history of concentration camps before the Nazis.
That said, I never once claimed that concentration camp "must mean Nazis."
What I have said is using the word concentration camp and denying that it implies, is synonymous, or has reference to Nazis concentration camps is cute.
Flip the script and you’d be of the opposite opinion. But, whatever.
He seems to by saying that concentration camps don't necessarily correlate to Nazis, but that AOC must have been making that connection for... Reasons.Well, if you are acknowledging a reference to concentration camps is not necessarily a reference to Nazism, than we agree.
So, a cute truth?
So you are just assuming that everyone has the same level of knowledge you do regarding concentration camp history? I don't think I know anything of the sort, I said "educated guess", which is still a guess. You have been dealing with human beings, mostly in an academic capacity from what I know of you, for decades. What is your estimate based on your experience with human beings about their general understanding of history as opposed to recency bias and sensationalism. Do you think it is completely preposterous to think that maybe many people would refer back to the most sensational and recent example they probably know about, which is likely to be the Holocaust. Or is it exactly as likely that most people will instead conjure an idea of concentration camps as used by the British during the second Boer war? Do you know when the term was coined and where it originated? Do you think more Americans have heard of Hitler and the Nazis, or do they just as readily think of general Valeriano Weyler? Off the top of your head do you know where he used concentration camps and what he called them?No, I have no education regarding the number of Americans who know know that concentration camps have been around for centuries.
Since you seem to think you do, do you also have an educated guess on the percentage of the followers of the tweets of Ocasio-Cortez who understand this?
He seems to by saying that concentration camps don't necessarily correlate to Nazis, but that AOC must have been making that connection for... Reasons.
So you are just assuming that everyone has the same level of knowledge you do regarding concentration camp history?
I don't think I know anything of the sort, I said "educated guess", which is still a guess. You have been dealing with human beings, mostly in an academic capacity from what I know of you, for decades. What is your estimate based on your experience with human beings about their general understanding of history as opposed to recency bias and sensationalism. Do you think it is completely preposterous to think that maybe many people would refer back to the most sensational and recent example they probably know about, which is likely to be the Holocaust. Or is it exactly as likely that most people will instead conjure an idea of concentration camps as used by the British during the second Boer war? Do you know when the term was coined and where it originated? Do you think more Americans have heard of Hitler and the Nazis, or do they just as readily think of general Valeriano Weyler? Off the top of your head do you know where he used concentration camps and what he called them?
I'm not asking you to provide statistically evidence of every person's individual knowledge but when it suits your purposes you are very quick to point out things such as recency bias to explain what people are thinking and why, with great surety, but now you have absolutely no idea what might be a more likely connotation to expect from the general populace? Hmm.
Fair enough. I said agree to disagree pages agoNo. Neither do I spend my life worrying that every single phrase I use may be misinterpreted by people who don't know the whole truth. Instead, I stand ready to explain myself those who do not.
An educated guess requires some sort of knowledge or understanding of the situation. That's while its different from a random guess. No, I'm not surprised some people reference back to the Holocaust, but we have since seen concentration camps in the Soviet Union, South America, Asia, Europe, etc. since the second world war, I don't see a reason to hold back based on other people's ignorance. If recency bias were in play, there would be no Nazi connotation at all.
I have no interest in continuing this conversation. I'm flopping out.
True, but go ahead and pretend they have nothing to do with what is going on. If you can't see that progressives are attempting to obstruct and complicate everything that the current administration attempts to do, even when those actions are in alignment with goals that progressives were in support of immediately before this president took office, then you aren't paying attention. I was listening to CNN the other day and heard a hysterical (and illustrative) exchange. Chris Cuomo had been speaking in support of AOC's concentration camp claims. He talked about how embarrassing and reprehensible he found the Trump administration's handling of the situation. He then brought on a conservative guest who immediately said that Obama had deported more illegal immigrants than any president, including Trump. He added that Obama had also detained people, including many children, in chain-link cages. He said that by AOC's standards that Obama was also running concentration camps. Without hardly a pause Cuomo responded, "So you finally admit that Obama was enforcing our laws?" Cuomo literally spun on a dime when the subject turned to Obama. The same activities that are currently embarrassing and reprehensible were then enforcing our laws.The progressive forces are not running the immigration system nor the concentration camps.
True, but go ahead and pretend they have nothing to do with what is going on. If you can't see that progressives are attempting to obstruct and complicate everything that the current administration attempts to do, even when those actions are in alignment with goals that progressives were in support of immediately before this president took office, then you aren't paying attention. ...
Maybe you could explain how what he said was pointing out the two-faced nature of the conservative guest?I'm not aware that spinning a topic to point out the two-faced nature of particular conservative guest somehow complicates or obstructs the actions of the current administration. Could you lay out that connection for me?
Or, was your point that Obama was treating people badly? Because I knew that well before Trump declared for President, it was all over the skeptical progressive blogs.
Before Trump was elected I was aware of stories of people who had enlisted in the U.S. military as a path to U.S. citizenship (I have served with at least a dozen such people directly) who were deported under Obama policies for minor crimes. Like traffic infractions. It was disgusting and disappointing. These are people who did more for this nation than the majority of U.S. citizens have done. They had their dream taken away from them for almost nothing. Obama was, at the time, one of the most hard core pro-deportation Presidents in U.S. history. And he has been followed by Trump.I'm not aware that spinning a topic to point out the two-faced nature of particular conservative guest somehow complicates or obstructs the actions of the current administration. Could you lay out that connection for me?
Or, was your point that Obama was treating people badly? Because I knew that well before Trump declared for President, it was all over the skeptical progressive blogs.
Maybe you could explain how what he said was pointing out the two-faced nature of the conservative guest?
And now you're turning on Obama?