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Can we talk about how Quin is ride-or-die for Bogdanovic?

NAOS

NAOS

Well-Known Member
Quin is getting on my nerves a bit too much lately. Absolutely no good reason to put Bogie out there for the final play of the Cavs game. Every scenario would have been bolstered with Gay in there instead. All this versatility we have needs to be... used..., right?
 
I would add that since Bogey got here, Joe has been the better player but is seen in much lower priority. It's not that he's a bad player, but I do agree that Quin rates Bogey too highly. It's one of the reasons why I was tilted towards trading him this off season. I think the majority of people around the league see Bogey the way Quin does, and I think that's an over evaluation.

Between Bogey/Ingles/Clarkson/Gay/O'Neale it should be an open ended decision to see who closes. But 9/10 times it's O'Neale-Bogdanovic. When it comes to a defense only possession, Bogey shouldn't be out there. Maybe Gobert wouldn't have to defend three shots and rebound the ball himself if Gay was out there instead.

If Gay keeps up his 3 point volume with ~40% accuracy (which would be an incredible feat tbf), I think he should close more than Bogey. Gay becoming a real alternative to Bogey was the best case scenario for his signing and it's happening. The last roadblock is Quin.
 
KqWIN said:
I would add that since Bogey got here, Joe has been the better player but is seen in much lower priority. It's not that he's a bad player, but I do agree that Quin rates Bogey too highly. It's one of the reasons why I was tilted towards trading him this off season. I think the majority of people around the league see Bogey the way Quin does, and I think that's an over evaluation.

Between Bogey/Ingles/Clarkson/Gay/O'Neale it should be an open ended decision to see who closes. But 9/10 times it's O'Neale-Bogdanovic. When it comes to a defense only possession, Bogey shouldn't be out there. Maybe Gobert wouldn't have to defend three shots and rebound the ball himself if Gay was out there instead.

If Gay keeps up his 3 point volume with ~40% accuracy (which would be an incredible feat tbf), I think he should close more than Bogey. Gay becoming a real alternative to Bogey was the best case scenario for his signing and it's happening. The last roadblock is Quin.
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I agree with this. I'd like to see the Jazz close a game with Conley, Mitchell, Royce, Gay and Gobert. There's plenty of scoring on the floor with that lineup. Gay gives the Jazz more size defensively, he's a much better rebounder than Bogdanovic, and so far he's been at least as good at getting and making looks from 3pt range.

The other thing to consider is that Gay has the ability to put the ball down and create a shot for himself if defenses are keying in on our guards. He can go down the lane and make a play near the rim, or he can shoot over the top of the defense. The Jazz are going to need that in the playoffs.

Looking at some lineup data, I'd also be intrigued to see a lineup with Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, Gay, Gobert. That might actually be our best one.
 
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Quin's determined that the same 5 guys that start the game have to finish it, no one off the bench is allowed to be on the court in the final 5 minutes. It's very frustrating.
 
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I was wondering the same thing. Bogey is not the guy you want on the court on a final defensive stand. RG has one of the highest BBIQ in the league and Bogey has one of the lowest. Very poor coaching decision.
 
There was a final play of a game last year where Quin had Bojan inbound the ball. It was a turnover and we lost. I don’t think this is a Bojan thing, or even Quin having a ride-or-die with Bojan, inasmuch as I think Quin perseverates and gets hung up on one or two particular nuances and let’s every other operation go to default. This was the reason I made a thread on the largest off-season acquisition being Quin adding a mentor of his to the coaching staff; someone to slow him down at particular junctions and say “hey, look at what’s right in front of us.”
 
infection said:
There was a final play of a game last year where Quin had Bojan inbound the ball. It was a turnover and we lost. I don’t think this is a Bojan thing, or even Quin having a ride-or-die with Bojan, inasmuch as I think Quin perseverates and gets hung up on one or two particular nuances and let’s every other operation go to default. This was the reason I made a thread on the largest off-season acquisition being Quin adding a mentor of his to the coaching staff; someone to slow him down at particular junctions and say “hey, look at what’s right in front of us.”
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And this is not a knock to any of the guys on the staff, but do we think any of them have a the type of comfort with Quin that they can say, “hey, should we put in Gay?”
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I agree with this. I'd like to see the Jazz close a game with Conley, Mitchell, Royce, Gay and Gobert. There's plenty of scoring on the floor with that lineup. Gay gives the Jazz more size defensively, he's a much better rebounder than Bogdanovic, and so far he's been at least as good at getting and making looks from 3pt range.

The other thing to consider is that Gay has the ability to put the ball down and create a shot for himself if defenses are keying in on our guards. He can go down the lane and make a play near the rim, or he can shoot over the top of the defense. The Jazz are going to need that in the playoffs.

Looking at some lineup data, I'd also be intrigued to see a lineup with Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, Gay, Gobert. That might actually be our best one.
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I don't want to knock Royce tonight because I thought he had a good game, but this type of matchup is exactly the type of lineup where you might sit Royce. He's matched up with Mobley, but Gay is simply a much better matchup with his size and there's no one else that Royce needed to guard on the court either. Guarding Lauri Markannen is simply being tethered to a shooter and it doesn't really matter if it's Royce, Bogey, or Mitchell guarding him. Same task, you just have to stick onto him.

Maybe you still want Royce out there to have more of the little things, but Gay should have been the obvious first choice. From there you could have gone with Bogey, Joe, O'Neale, or even Clarkson (if he was hot) depending on what Quin felt he needed most. We have tons of options and flexibility but Quin himself is not flexible.
 
infection said:
And this is not a knock to any of the guys on the staff, but do we think any of them have a the type of comfort with Quin that they can say, “hey, should we put in Gay?”
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I think Quin is keen on limiting Rudy Gay's minutes and playing him in certain lineups during the regular season.
 
NAOS said:
Quin is getting on my nerves a bit too much lately. Absolutely no good reason to put Bogie out there for the final play of the Cavs game. Every scenario would have been bolstered with Gay in there instead. All this versatility we have needs to be... used..., right?
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There aren't any good reasons, I agree Gay should be closing, but here are some ok reasons:

- Gay hasn't been very good defensively yet, particularly his communication with Gobert needs some time. Bogey is probably playing better perimeter defense than Gay right now.
- I think Bogey might be our best free throw shooter right now, maybe Quin was anticipating a quick shot and then a foul.
- It worked, we got the stop, and won the game.

I guess I'm still ok with bringing Gay along slowly, but post All Star break he's going to need to start getting time with the closing lineup if it's going to be ready for the playoffs.
 
I don't think Snyder expected it to be the last possession in the game. Even so, Bogdanović probably knows the system better than Gay, which is why the coach has more confidence in him. Also, the biggest problem he has in defense is that he fouls, at the end of the match more contact is allowed.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Bogie has been pretty clutch, right?
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He should be out there on offense for sure. On a last play scenario on defense I think it’s fair to question why he’d be out there. Gay has had some struggles on defense laterally but is worlds better as a secondary rim protector and we needed rebounding badly against this team.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He should be out there on offense for sure. On a last play scenario on defense I think it’s fair to question why he’d be out there. Gay has had some struggles on defense laterally but is worlds better as a secondary rim protector and we needed rebounding badly against this team.
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I thought for sure they were going to get that put-back in.
 
infection said:
I thought for sure they were going to get that put-back in.
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This. When the game actually ended my dad and I were in a state of disbelief. Like, wait, the game's over? The game's over! We won! Weird possession to end the game for sure.
 
Ron Mexico said:
He has been one of our best clutch players on both ends by advanced stats over the last two years.

If I'm bringing in Gay for someone last few minutes it's Royce.
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Cmon. What about this particular instance with 17.9 seconds against the Cavs?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He should be out there on offense for sure. On a last play scenario on defense I think it’s fair to question why he’d be out there. Gay has had some struggles on defense laterally but is worlds better as a secondary rim protector and we needed rebounding badly against this team.
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Obviously this. Funny to see dudes glance off of discussing the specifics in the OP. And glance off the long history of end-of-game defensive and offensive substitutions.
 
NAOS said:
Obviously this. Funny to see dudes glance off of discussing the specifics in the OP. And glance off the long history of end-of-game defensive and offensive substitutions.
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We literally lost a game in Sacramento a couple years ago that Bogey missed a box out on Harrison Barnes. I was in attendance and very sad.
 
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