Yes, it does, you just don't want to see it. You have to bring something else into the equation to excuse your hate.
CJ Miles is the man!
- Thread starter LiemD
- Start date
Yes, it does, you just don't want to see it. You have to bring something else into the equation to excuse your hate.
Which will make him the best three point shooter in NBA history?
Maybe the best three point shooter for a single year in NBA history, but not All Time.
All Time Bests require consistency over time, as well as the number of three's shot.
If this was not the case I could enter the NBA, shoot one, and make it, never shoot another, and retire... thereby becoming the best 3 point shooter in the Universe, no takebacks, or crossies.
Why do all Jazzfanz think every other role player in the world besides Utah role players hit every open jump shot? Players miss shots, it happens.
I absolutely agree on all accounts. He's adding so much more this year than last. His assist to Evans the last game is prime example of him maturing. He made a split second decision that reversed a previous decision he all but married himself to by jumping. My point there wasn't to jump down his throat for shooting less free throws than the league elite. Actually, I'd rather he improved his driving abilities before attempting to draw fouls just for the sake of drawing fouls. The point is to show how silly it is to form an argument strictly from one stat. Using CJ's shooting % to "prove" that he shoots just as good as the competition is naive.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Them getting calls helps increase their %. I believe if those players take a shot, get fouled and miss then it does not count as a FG attempt. But if they shoot make it and get fouled it does. Thereby increasing their FG% because they are not counting all of their misses as misses. A lesser known player in the NBA gets less calls and thereby less help with their FG% as the stars. There is no doubt that all of these player get calls that average players like CJ don't. So not all of those misses should be erased but are for the superstars of the league.
If I am wrong on how the FGA's work then ignore all of the previous paragraph.
You are aware that not only do those players play much more MPG, but they also handle the ball a significant amount more.
LogGrad98
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Since this is a CJ thread and the Korver thing came up as comparison to CJ show me where CJ is "best" at anything at all? Korver has a single season in the record books for all time = Best 3pt % for a Season. Where is CJ's best of anything? Point is I would take someone capable of NBA-best over CJ, who is getting a pass in this thread for being somewhat less than mediocre since "all players miss shots anyway". Korver at the 3 pt line drew attention. CJ doesn't. It is that simple at times. That is called spreading the defense. Someone who has shown they are capable of NBA-best performances will command attention. That was the whole point of the "best 3pt shooter in the league" discussion. No one was arguing that Korver was the best 3 pt shooter anyone has ever seen anywhere, but he does have one season in the record-books. Compared to CJ (which is the point) who has exactly none.
Them getting calls helps increase their %. I believe if those players take a shot, get fouled and miss then it does not count as a FG attempt. But if they shoot make it and get fouled it does. Thereby increasing their FG% because they are not counting all of their misses as misses. A lesser known player in the NBA gets less calls and thereby less help with their FG% as the stars. There is no doubt that all of these player get calls that average players like CJ don't. So not all of those misses should be erased but are for the superstars of the league.
If I am wrong on how the FGA's work then ignore all of the previous paragraph.
You're correct. If you've invented a way to fully and accurately discount how much fg % should be raised (or lowered if you're Fesenko) based on free throw attempts then let me know and we'll really get statistical. I don't think this changes the point I made but the weighting applied.
Yes, and since you didn't make a point I will do it for you. Those players play much more MPG, which has nothing to do with efficiency. If anything, you would argue that higher MPG can tire players and lower their shooting efficiency at times. Handling the ball more means creating your own shot, which means you're taking harder, off balanced shots. CJ gets spoon fed. While we're at it, let's statistically discount every single wide open look CJ gets compared to the greats. I guarantee the results wouldn't look good for CJ.
Lost_Jazz_Fan
Member
Doeism runs wild through Jazz-land!!! Approximately every few games or so... Doe!
I agree with your main point, I thought Korver did require attention, as he always had a man running after him which did not allow that man to be used in help defense. He shot better than CJ does.... but don't go NBA History on this.
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
You seem to be adding conditions to your argument now. But yes, CJ's major weakness is not drawing fouls. At the same time, it makes his numbers look somewhat even more impressive. He is already averaging 18 points per 36 minutes. If (or when) he figures out how to draw contact better we would be looking at well over 20 points a game per 36 minutes. That is not shoddy for 3.5 million a year.
Hitman
Well-Known Member
This is one of my criticisms of Miles, particularly as he has a good FT%, but he has actually been better at drawing fouls this season than ever before. I use FTA/Min as a rough indicator of how often a player is fouled, last season Miles and Korver were dead last in this stat, and Korver was a strict jump-shooter with almost zero ability to put the ball on the floor. Miles FTA/Min last season was also right about his career number. This season, he is significantly better, particularly over the past month or so (since the Portland game), where he has shot at least one free throw in every game bar one. Also, his shooting percentages have also had a recent upspike, which can only be a result of him driving harder to the rim and finishing. Early in the season he was driving to 5 feet, pulling up, trying to flip the ball in and missing, now he's driving right to the basket and getting makes or drawing fouls. As a consequence he's also now getting better looks from outside because defenders are respecting his drive, before they could play up on him more. His offensive numbers for December have been pretty good for a guy coming off the bench and playing less than half a game (15 ppg, 46% shooting, 33% on 3s).
I'd be happy if he could keep this up, given his role as #1 scoring option off the bench, but would like to see him drive more, rebound more and also get his assist numbers up.
What are you talking about? The only argument I've made is that CJ misses wide open shots. Again, as you can read above, I not concerned with CJ:
1. Missing low shot clock rush shots
2. Not drawing fowls
3. His defensive improvements and obvious benefits he's added this year
My only argument is that CJ misses wide open shots, where he's spoon fed by D-Will breaking down the defense and dishing, when nobody is within five feet, and where he has more than enough time to set his feet, square his shoulders, and shoot in his rhythm. You tried to dispute that by cherry picking a single statistic. It was a poor attempt. If you want to break down his wide open shot % and prove my idea wrong then I'm all ears. I'm not hating on CJ, I've not called for a trade, I've defended him on this forum several times, and I've credited his improvements. The only thing I'm addressing here is CJ consistently chucking and missing wide open shots. The homers want to group think the idea under the rug with cliches and rhetoric. If it's lack of substance that does it for you then keep misrepresenting and/or avoiding my single point. Have fun.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
CJ has been pretty good lately.
AK has been suck.
Raja has been suck and injured. When he's played he's been a disaster.
And Hayward has been non-existent. At least Giricek would have gotten a traveling call or some hair follicle disease by now or fought with sloan. Maybe hayward will have another cool left handed dunk to give us something to talk about?
AK has been suck.
Raja has been suck and injured. When he's played he's been a disaster.
And Hayward has been non-existent. At least Giricek would have gotten a traveling call or some hair follicle disease by now or fought with sloan. Maybe hayward will have another cool left handed dunk to give us something to talk about?
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Might as well bitch and moan about the sun coming up. Because everybody in the game misses wide open shots. EVERYBODY. Does CJ miss more than others? Maybe a little but I doubt it. I'd like to see you show #'s on wide open shots prove your point, otherwise it's irrelevant and hearsay. His fg% and 3pt% are getting more respectable and I have no problem with missed shots if they are good looks.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Whatever, Stockton and Malone never missed.
What irritates me the most with CJ is that he cranks it up too soon. the volume doesn't necessarily bug me (although he shouldn't shoot more than Deron, Millsap, and Jefferson). It's when and where he shoots. too often he shoots it with 20 seconds left on the shot clock 30 feet away. In the last few games I've seen him drive more. Lets see if he consistently does that....
Yes, because we're here to compare meaningless stats and pretend that observation is meaningless. Additionally, thank you captain obvious for defending the honor of her lady, your spousal position r.e. Clank, that you've resorted to the extreme position of everybody misses a wide open shot here or there as some fringe justification. I mean, you've added so much that I hereby nominate you king coach, lowercase of course.
I'm glad it took you 4 threads and more pages than countable to finally address a point. You truly are a candidate for smartest SOB who has ever walked this earth award. It takes a once in a Big Bang genius to come up with the stuff you have here. I've decided to refer to you're new title, MR. I Cannot Read Or Come Up with An Original Thought as the source of all that is righteous, wise, and godly. Congratulations from the bottom of my heart.
Is homer in the dictionary yet?
unluckyseventeen
Well-Known Member
Wait, who are you talking to? Yourself?