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CJ Miles is the man!

vj_74 said:
who cares about 2 years ago? That was a different team. Plus, Miles has never been good enough to retain the starter position for a whole season anyways. Last year he eventually lost it to Maththews/AK.

His FG% last 4 seasons leading upto this one:

48%
46%
43%
41%

Nice progression.

Moral of the story- You give him a bigger role and you get diminishing returns.
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2 years ago is the only time he was a starter playing the same role that Bell is now. Bell is also playing with similar if not better talent around him than Miles was then. He was better at it shooting wise than Bell is now.

You completely dodged the main point and only have FG% as your backing. As Jazz4ever pointed out he is better in every way than he has ever been and doing it as the only real scoring option off of the bench. He is being defended better than Bell he is being keyed upon and still putting up the same %'s as Bell.

Now I'm not pushing for CJ to start because Bell as the main scoring option off of the bench would make those pathetic #'s even worse. But trying to say Bell is better just because he is shooting better (especially when he really isn't) is naive.

Mathews was better than Miles and deserved the start. I've never said otherwise. But Bell isn't. I don't mind him starting but he's getting way too many minutes. Actually if the starters keep digging holes I might start minding him starting because he looks like the weakest link in that lineup.
 
Yay!!! CJ showed up in Cleveland. Go CJ!!
 
but wait cj sucks. he is inconsistant. :D.

the only player who gets flack for being inconsistent. how about those other jazz players that are inconsistent they get some kind of free pass?
 
gregbroncs said:
Now I'm not pushing for CJ to start because Bell as the main scoring option off of the bench would make those pathetic #'s even worse. But trying to say Bell is better just because he is shooting better (especially when he really isn't) is naive.

Mathews was better than Miles and deserved the start. I've never said otherwise. But Bell isn't. I don't mind him starting but he's getting way too many minutes. Actually if the starters keep digging holes I might start minding him starting because he looks like the weakest link in that lineup.
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If Miles started, he would easily become the weakest link too. Reason Bell is starting right now is because apart from the fact that he doesn't jack up shots like Miles, he also brings the intangibles, a bit of the veteran savvy and experience and vocal leadership this team needs, apart from gritty defense. So, even if he shot a little worse than Miles no one would mind him starting. But he is actually shooting better and that just makes things easier. Bell is just averaging 28 mins which is'nt that high for a starter. Miles might be better than previous years but still not steady enough to be a 30-min starter/finisher night in and night out.
 
vj_74 said:
If Miles started, he would easily become the weakest link too. Reason Bell is starting right now is because apart from the fact that he doesn't jack up shots like Miles, he also brings the intangibles, a bit of the veteran savvy and experience and vocal leadership this team needs, apart from gritty defense. So, even if he shot a little worse than Miles no one would mind him starting. But he is actually shooting better and that just makes things easier. Bell is just averaging 28 mins which is'nt that high for a starter. Miles might be better than previous years but still not steady enough to be a 30-min starter/finisher night in and night out.
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As if Kirilenko and the aging Raja are "steady enough"?

Tonight showed that careful use of Bell and Miles together (i.e., when the opposing 2/3 lineup isn't too tall) might be valuable.

The Bucks game showed that DW-CJ-AK-PM-AJ is valuable--and it's been valuable more often than DW-RB-AK-PM-AJ. Hopefully the difference isn't as clear anymore if Bell has found his shot again.

Whether CJ starts or not, it's crazy that Bell has been logging more minutes than Miles. Even with CJ's catching and jacking, Miles and Bell have the exact same FG% (before tonights game); yet Miles leads Bell significantly in points (& +/-) and mildly in rebounds, steals, & blocks. Miles logged nearly twice the FTs as Bell, and that's not all from playing with the second unit.

Bell playing more than Miles is good ol' Jerry vet bias; Bell's defense hasn't even been particularly stellar to warrant it, nor has Miles defense been particularly bad. It's a much more benign form of Derek Fisher disease: Sloan likes to start the locker-room stabilizer, no matter whether it's the optimal choice or not. At least Bell is arguably an off-guard--not like sub-40%-FG Fish.
 
vj_74 said:
If Miles started, he would easily become the weakest link too. Reason Bell is starting right now is because apart from the fact that he doesn't jack up shots like Miles, he also brings the intangibles, a bit of the veteran savvy and experience and vocal leadership this team needs, apart from gritty defense. So, even if he shot a little worse than Miles no one would mind him starting. But he is actually shooting better and that just makes things easier. Bell is just averaging 28 mins which is'nt that high for a starter. Miles might be better than previous years but still not steady enough to be a 30-min starter/finisher night in and night out.
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CJ would probably become the weakest link because our starter's are pretty good. But Bell would be horrendous in the role CJ is playing this year and like IGS stated CJ is pretty much doing everything better than Bell on the court except shooting % which he is equal at not worse like you keep trying to claim.

CJ should be getting more minutes than Bell and he's not. Now I understand Bell last night had a good game (I couldn't watch it) but how many "good" games has Bell had this year compared to CJ? Not as many if it's even close he has not scored 20 pts even once. And even on Bell's "good" game CJ has more steals, assists, points and rebounds than him in 10 less minutes.
 
gregbroncs said:
CJ should be getting more minutes than Bell and he's not. Now I understand Bell last night had a good game (I couldn't watch it) but how many "good" games has Bell had this year compared to CJ? Not as many if it's even close he has not scored 20 pts even once. And even on Bell's "good" game CJ has more steals, assists, points and rebounds than him in 10 less minutes.
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When Miles was borderline useless his first 25 games last year weren't you the one that said we had to be patient with him because he was coming off an injury?

Bell is coming off a much more severe injury and is 10 years older than Miles. And while Bell has been way better in his first 25 or so back this year than Miles had been last year; why doesn't he get the same slack?
 
candrew said:
When Miles was borderline useless his first 25 games last year weren't you the one that said we had to be patient with him because he was coming off an injury?

Bell is coming off a much more severe injury and is 10 years older than Miles. And while Bell has been way better in his first 25 or so back this year than Miles had been last year; why doesn't he get the same slack?
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I was pushing for patients with Miles last year and am not giving up on Bell this year. However Bell is getting a pass on his crappy play and Miles is being railed against even though he has been far superior to Bell this year. While I hope the starting unit and Bell come along eventually they are getting in holes far too often. I have hope that Bell eventually becomes a starting quality SG for us. However when Cj was struggling last year and working his way back into the lineup he was not playing more minutes than the superior player (Mathews). This year Bell is being far out played by Miles and should be having his minutes limited until he is outplaying the other guy. He's not and he is still getting a pass while CJ takes huge amounts of criticism on here while he is basically carrying our 2nd unit.

Like last year when Mathews was playing over CJ, this year CJ should be playing over Bell. Because he is outplaying him.
 
While I agree with Greg and ISG that Miles should be getting more minutes than Bell throughout the game there is no way I start Miles over Bell right now. Bell does a good job on the defensive end of the floor to start games. The Problem with the starters is they take to long to be agressive going to the Basket. As as was stated in another thread our first possession always seems to end up in an AK jump shot from 19 feet. And then we keep taking those until we are in a hole. Deron needs to come out from the start like he does in the second half and attack. That right there would get or offense going better than Adding CJ. The reason I am against CJ starting is that it is mandatory that we have a scorer off the bench. Bell and AK can not fill that roll. CJ has been very good at doing that.

CJ needs to keep coming off the bench to give us that offensive spark. But there is no reason that I can think of that he should be getting less minutes than Bell unless Bell is playing like he did last night
 
Ben10 said:
While I agree with Greg and ISG that Miles should be getting more minutes than Bell throughout the game there is no way I start Miles over Bell right now. Bell does a good job on the defensive end of the floor to start games. The Problem with the starters is they take to long to be agressive going to the Basket. As as was stated in another thread our first possession always seems to end up in an AK jump shot from 19 feet. And then we keep taking those until we are in a hole. Deron needs to come out from the start like he does in the second half and attack. That right there would get or offense going better than Adding CJ. The reason I am against CJ starting is that it is mandatory that we have a scorer off the bench. Bell and AK can not fill that roll. CJ has been very good at doing that.

CJ needs to keep coming off the bench to give us that offensive spark. But there is no reason that I can think of that he should be getting less minutes than Bell unless Bell is playing like he did last night
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I agree with your post. Except that while Bell played well last night. CJ still deserved as many if not more minutes.
 
As flawed as he was, I miss Ronnie Brewer starting games. It seemed like to start every game he would have at least 2 back door cut layups right off the bat. Now we have AK and Raja its usually a 20 footer. That 20 footer usually tells the story of the game. AK makes it, the Jazz will be shooting well. AK misses, we are doomed to clank jumpers all game.
 
Is CJ going to show up in Minny? Any bets?

My bet is he does not. I am predicting 2-13, 8 pts, 2 TO, 0 reb, 2 assists, 1 steal.
 
Dwill_PwnasaurasRex said:
As flawed as he was, I miss Ronnie Brewer starting games. It seemed like to start every game he would have at least 2 back door cut layups right off the bat. Now we have AK and Raja its usually a 20 footer. That 20 footer usually tells the story of the game. AK makes it, the Jazz will be shooting well. AK misses, we are doomed to clank jumpers all game.
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lol brewer would be cool to start on the jaz ate the start of 1st and 3rd not major minutes for the rest of the game

ooh well he is gone
 
LogGrad98 said:
Is CJ going to show up in Minny? Any bets?

My bet is he does not. I am predicting 2-13, 8 pts, 2 TO, 0 reb, 2 assists, 1 steal.
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Well he did a little better than I thought. 3-9, 8 pts, 1 TO, 3 reb, 1 assist, 3 steals.

Way to go CJ. Keep up the mediocre work! One day you will be Michael Jordan...um, just not today...tomorrow doesn't look too good either. But one day!!
 
LogGrad98 said:
Well he did a little better than I thought. 3-9, 8 pts, 1 TO, 3 reb, 1 assist, 3 steals.

Way to go CJ. Keep up the mediocre work! One day you will be Michael Jordan...um, just not today...tomorrow doesn't look too good either. But one day!!
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I only caught the 4th quarter, but I saw he fouled Webster on 2 straight jump shots, rough.
 
gregbroncs said:
I was pushing for patients with Miles last year and am not giving up on Bell this year. However Bell is getting a pass on his crappy play and Miles is being railed against even though he has been far superior to Bell this year. While I hope the starting unit and Bell come along eventually they are getting in holes far too often. I have hope that Bell eventually becomes a starting quality SG for us. However when Cj was struggling last year and working his way back into the lineup he was not playing more minutes than the superior player (Mathews). This year Bell is being far out played by Miles and should be having his minutes limited until he is outplaying the other guy. He's not and he is still getting a pass while CJ takes huge amounts of criticism on here while he is basically carrying our 2nd unit.

Like last year when Mathews was playing over CJ, this year CJ should be playing over Bell. Because he is outplaying him.
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*patience
 
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