Donald is about to go through some things...

[Red]

Maybe, but I really ask myself, what would be the desired outcome of said civil war? Removal of all individual liberties? Return to segregation? Separate but equal codified in the constitution? Abortion criminalized, along with miscarriages and anyone helping any women with pregnancy complications? President/Dictator Trump serving for life? Elimination of checks and balances in the structure of our government? What do they really want to accomplish? So they kick off a civil war since the FBI raided one of Trump's residences. So they start fighting, and killing people, and what do they want to come out of it? Just an orgasm from achieving their fever dreams of killing people with their 200 guns? Seriously, a civil war has to have targets, end-state goals, and then finally, consequences. Talk of a civil war is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Not that some right-wing militia groups and citizens with murder fantasies might band together and put up a show of force, but take the real actual civil war we had. We had a literal division in the country. I am sure not everyone on the north side and everyone on the south side agreed with the reasoning entirely for their side to fight, but enough did to allow it to happen and to support it. But it was a fundamental change to our country the likes of which we have never seen before or since. These idiots really think 50% of the population will support attacking the other 50% because Trump might be held accountable for his actions? How remarkably stupid.

I think they should band together and start this civil war. Every single right-wing militia group and extremist who feels attacking our seat of government was a patriotic act because we can't lose an election!!1! How can we lose, it has to be yet another conspiracy!!! We could have cheerleaders and everything!!!1! We are the 'muricans, mighty mighty 'muricans!!! We have spirit, yes we do, we have guns, how 'bout YOU?!?!? 'Muricans let's fight, get Trump a vict'ry tonight!! Let's FIGHT!!! Who do we want? TRUMP!! What do we want? D-I-C-T-A-T-O-R......TTTRRRUUUUMMMMPPPPP!!!!!!! GO TRUMP!!!

Maybe we can eliminate the bulk of the morons doing real damage to the country in one fell swoop as the military swoops in and puts it down in about an hour.

Listen. You misunderstand me. And I’m perfectly capable of not being clear in what I’m trying to say.

First of all, I have no idea what form a civil war would take in the United States today. I have no idea what form a civil war takes place in a modern national security state. I would not expect standing armies, that’s for sure.

I am not even sure a single shot needs to be fired to even qualify as a civil war in this age!

We are engaged in a cultural and political civil war right now, as far as I am concerned. Most Republicans are convinced the 2020 election was stolen. They see the Democrats, and liberals, as the enemy of the country they love. And Democrats clearly not just understand, but clearly actually SEE that Trump and his supporters tried to overturn one election, and they believe they will do it again. I don’t see every MAGA supporter as my enemy, but I certainly see the MAGA movement as the enemy of my country. I believe these two perspectives are irreconcilable at present. And if so, how do we emerge from cultural and political civil war?

I know people think of civil wars as blood soaked affairs, but if we decide, that, from now on, MAGA can only hate liberals and progressives, and liberals and Democrats can only hate MAGA, then what are we left with? Fierce court battles every single election, accusations flying every single election, Democratic presidents not legitimate to Republicans, Republican presidents not legitimate to Democrats. Absolutely no dialog. I don’t know how long such a state of the body politic could go on like that, but I do see that as a type of civil war. A Divided States of America, with absolutely no way forward toward reconciliation, trust, etc.

At least for the foreseeable future, things driving us apart are only going to grow. Things are going to get worse for this country. Much worse.

 

[Red]

From what gameface said, hunter is already being investigated currently. Big nothingburger from Al


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

Thanks. Yeah, I might have added that I was not myself certain that the FBI was not already doing that….

 

[LogGrad98]

Listen. You misunderstand me. And I’m perfectly capable of not being clear in what I’m trying to say.

First of all, I have no idea what form a civil war would take in the United States today. I have no idea what form a civil war takes place in a modern national security state. I would not expect standing armies, that’s for sure.

I am not even sure a single shot needs to be fired to even qualify as a civil war in this age!

We are engaged in a cultural and political civil war right now, as far as I am concerned. Most Republicans are convinced the 2020 election was stolen. They see the Democrats, and liberals, as the enemy of the country they love. And Democrats clearly not just understand, but clearly actually SEE that Trump and his supporters tried to overturn one election, and they believe they will do it again. I don’t see every MAGA supporter as my enemy, but I certainly see the MAGA movement as the enemy of my country. I believe these two perspectives are irreconcilable at present. And if so, how do we emerge from cultural and political civil war?

I know people think of civil wars as blood soaked affairs, but if we decide, that, from now on, MAGA can only hate liberals and progressives, and liberals and Democrats can only hate MAGA, then what are we left with? Fierce court battles every single election, accusations flying every single election, Democratic presidents not legitimate to Republicans, Republican presidents not legitimate to Democrats. Absolutely no dialog. I don’t know how long such a state of the body politic could go on like that, but I do see that as a type of civil war. A Divided States of America, with absolutely no way forward toward reconciliation, trust, etc.

At least for the foreseeable future, things driving us apart are only going to grow. Things are going to get worse for this country. Much worse.

I was asking more generally, not you specifically. I agreed with you generally that there is a call for this in some reaches of far-right. I just wondered aloud (in writing) what exactly they want to accomplish in a civil war.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

This was a poll conducted back in May of this year, well before any of the events of the past 24 hours. 55% of Republicans have little or no trust in the FBI. 53% of Independents have little or no trust in the FBI.

 

[The Thriller]

I was asking more generally, not you specifically. I agreed with you generally that there is a call for this in some reaches of far-right. I just wondered aloud (in writing) what exactly they want to accomplish in a civil war.

Pre New Deal Jim Crow America.

That’s what they want.

During that time the federal government was nothing more than a navy and small army. It didn’t regulate industries, left rich oligarchs to do whatever they wanted, didn’t enforce any environmental regulations, provided no social safety net, and never got in the way of “state’s rights.”

Socially, it would mean a return to the status quo; rich white (Christian) males on top, women in the kitchen, and black people on the bottom.

I think Tom Nichols nails it in this piece:

When Democracy Ends

It won’t look like you think it will.

newsletters.theatlantic.com

The “United States” would become a patchwork of small democracies agreeing to share a currency and certain other conveniences with a small cluster of half-assed, repressive oligarchies who agree only to help the federal government keep air traffic sorted out and the Wi-Fi strong. The nosy national courts and other federal institutions—at least until they are fully infested with right-wing cronies—will be told to go mind their own business about things like “free assembly,” “cruel and unusual punishment,” or that other whatchamacallit, “the rule of law.”

We’re already seeing this with abortion. Each state is its own country. Red states have outlawed it while blue states have moved to codify it. This won’t end with abortion. It’ll carry over to contraception, gay marriage, affirmative action, and other social laws and programs.

 

[fishonjazz]

So as far as I remember everyone know trump took classified documents from the white House to mar a Lago. I think I even remember trump admitting to that. So why would anyone have a problem with the FBI raiding mar a Lago to retrieve those documents?
Also, a judge would have to sign off on the search warrant right? Meaning a judge saw enough evidence of a crime to sign the warrant.

 

[Just Ted]

Because Hillary had classified documents on an unsecure mail account and didn’t even get a slap on the hand. Hillary deleted thousands of emails from a server that was easy to Hack and had possibly violated several top secret obligations that threatened the safety of our country. Still nothing…. Both dems and repubs need to own what has happened. Everything is political war fare now days. We are so tribal. I’ve read almost every post on this and find it crazy that both sides make comments such as “ republicans want to go back to Jim Crow” This broad brush is what is creating this civil war and we all just jump on board and paint with the broadest scopes we can to dehumanize the opposition. America as we knew it is gone. When Pelosi is praising China as an example of freedom, when Trump attacks race and sexuality, when the news attacks religions…we have lost our sense of countey. The beginning of the end?

 

[One Brow]

Because Hillary had classified documents on an unsecure mail account and didn’t even get a slap on the hand.

Emails, not documents, and they were buried below top-posted content in the standard email style. It was still inexcusable, both by Clinton and by everyone who sent an email with classified information to her email server. If you prosecute Clinton, half of Congress is involved, minimum, from both sides. No way they let that happen.

Hillary deleted thousands of emails from a server that was easy to Hack and had possibly violated several top secret obligations that threatened the safety of our country. Still nothing….

You just said the same thing twice. That's not waht "Still ... " means in that context.

Both dems and repubs need to own what has happened. Everything is political war fare now days. We are so tribal. I’ve read almost every post on this and find it crazy that both sides make comments such as “ republicans want to go back to Jim Crow” This broad brush is what is creating this civil war and we all just jump on board and paint with the broadest scopes we can to dehumanize the opposition. America as we knew it is gone. When Pelops is praising China as an example of freedom, when Trump attacks race and sexuality, when the news attacks religions…we have lost our sense of countey.

Here I agree (although if "Pelops" means "Pelosi", than "China" was actually Taiwan, which has a modern democracy).

The beginning of the end?

Just more of the same. If we see a fistfight break out in Congress, that will be a throwback to the old days.

 

[The Thriller]

Y’all know that Trump could release the warrant, right? Trumpers should be asking why he isn’t releasing a copy of the warrant via social media? If he really believed this were wrong, don’t you think he’d be sending copies of the warrant to anyone who’d listen?

 

[The Thriller]

Oh boy, I see both sidesing is happening already.

Hillary WAS investigated by the FBI… twice! I don’t recall near the outrage from Democratic politicians and media folk as we’re seeing today and the 2nd investigation opened just weeks from the presidential election.

Secondly, we’re seeing asymmetrical polarization. We have two parties in our country; a moderate Democratic Party that still aligns with most democratic parties internationally and an extremist Republican Party that aligns with right wing authoritarian parties.

Yes, Polarization Is Asymmetric—and Conservatives Are Worse

Don't be fooled by a new report from the Pew Research Center. Both sides are more politicized these days, but it's not equal.

www.theatlantic.com

Remember, just a few days ago this guy was speaking at CPAC:

View: https://twitter.com/deanobeidallah/status/1555607285661110273?s=21&t=C_47EvpHiAUrjyzlqp-6Gw


And just one day ago:

Spoiler: Language

View: https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1556600583821447170?s=21&t=C_47EvpHiAUrjyzlqp-6Gw

Until you have Democratic presidents idolizing Nazi generals, can we please refrain from both sidesing the two parties?

View: https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1556600583821447170?s=21&t=C_47EvpHiAUrjyzlqp-6Gw


Just two years ago Republicans tried to kill Mike Pence for not helping trump retain power even though he lost the election.

View: https://twitter.com/january6thcmte/status/1535082372030414861?s=21&t=C_47EvpHiAUrjyzlqp-6Gw

 

[fishonjazz]

Because Hillary had classified documents on an unsecure mail account and didn’t even get a slap on the hand. Hillary deleted thousands of emails from a server that was easy to Hack and had possibly violated several top secret obligations that threatened the safety of our country. Still nothing…. Both dems and repubs need to own what has happened. Everything is political war fare now days. We are so tribal. I’ve read almost every post on this and find it crazy that both sides make comments such as “ republicans want to go back to Jim Crow” This broad brush is what is creating this civil war and we all just jump on board and paint with the broadest scopes we can to dehumanize the opposition. America as we knew it is gone. When Pelosi is praising China as an example of freedom, when Trump attacks race and sexuality, when the news attacks religions…we have lost our sense of countey. The beginning of the end?

Are you mad that Hillary was investigated? I'm not, I'm glad that they investigated her. I'm sure you think there was evidence to try and convict her but law enforcement didn't. Maybe they know more about what she did than you do.? Is that possible?

 

[The Thriller]

Are you mad that Hillary was investigated? I'm not, I'm glad that they investigated her. I'm sure you think there was evidence to try and convict her but law enforcement didn't. Maybe they know more about what she did than you do.? Is that possible?

And it’s not like Trump didn’t have control of the DOJ just a few months after the conclusion of the Hillary Clinton investigation. He could’ve asked Sessions to reopen the case against her. He could’ve made it a requirement in the interview to find a new FBI director after he fired Comey. Perhaps there just wasn’t a legal case to be had?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Are you mad that Hillary was investigated? I'm not, I'm glad that they investigated her.

With Hillary, I think the issue is more the obvious difference in the way the FBI has apparently reacted to recovering materials. With Trump they very publicly rolled up to his house with 30 squad cars and tore though the place while nothing remotely like that happened with Hillary. There appears to be a bias in the way the FBI handles democrats versus how they handle republicans.

 

[Just Ted]

Are you mad that Hillary was investigated? I'm not, I'm glad that they investigated her. I'm sure you think there was evidence to try and convict her but law enforcement didn't. Maybe they know more about what she did than you do.? Is that possible?

By this logic Trump would also be innocent since they have investigated him but not filed charges. So should we just let his stuff slide as well?

Fish always trying to make it personal. Let’s just say some of us might have had time working with senior leadership in this country. Some of us have positions within the DoD that may have seen many of the things I am discussing. It was nothing short of a cover up. Look at those around her who were fired and took the wrap. You won’t because CNN didn’t tell you too. I was ripping on trump. I’m not a supporter but if Trump is gonna go down then why not Hillary? Why not treat the crime the same? It’s political warfare. We all know it. Corruption from both parties is killing those who live in this country. It’s not about us anymore. It’s about political power. The money that is laundered is astronomical. Billions.

 

[fishonjazz]

With Hillary, I think the issue is more the obvious difference in the way the FBI has apparently reacted to recovering materials. With Trump they very publicly rolled up to his house with 30 squad cars and tore though the place while nothing remotely like that happened with Hillary. There appears to be a bias in the way the FBI handles democrats versus how they handle republicans.

You are making an assumption that the reason the two were handled differently is simply because of what party they belong to. Assumptions from you mean nothing.



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[Just Ted]

Also, why wasn’t swalwell investigated and raided for having an affair with a Chinese spy? Why isn’t anyone associated with Epstein being raided…well maybe trump is now

 

[Just Ted]

You are making an assumption that the reason the two were handled differently is simply because of what party they belong to. Assumptions from you mean nothing.



Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

Fish has to make it personal again. It’s almost like he doesn’t want to discuss the issues and have a give and take. He would rather throw stones at people he disagrees with.


The assumption he is making is one that is being discussed. Is there a use of the DOJ that is being used as a political weapon. Many feel it is and has been for many years. If I recall pelosi felt that way during the trump era as did Schumer. Is this the way we wish our country to be run?

 

[The Thriller]

No one is above the law. If Donald did the crime then he deserves the time. Why should he be upset for the FBI raid if he’s innocent? If he’s innocent then this is going to boomerang for him. But if he knows he’s guilty…


View: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1557080663643267072?s=21&t=sitYWRogKqBkhf569SHLkg

 

[The Thriller]

A senior government official told NBC News that the FBI was at Mar-a-Lago “for the majority of the day” and confirmed that the search warrant was connected to the National Archives.


Trump this year had to return 15 boxes of documents that were improperly taken from the White House, the National Archives and Records Administration, or NARA, said in February.

“In mid-January 2022, NARA arranged for the transport from the Trump Mar-a-Lago property in Florida to the National Archives of 15 boxes that contained Presidential records, following discussions with President Trump’s representatives in 2021,” the National Archives said in a statement Feb. 7.

The same month, the National Archives and Records Administration asked the Justice Department to examine whether Trump’s handling of White House records violated federal law, a story first reported by The Washington Post and subsequently confirmed by NBC News sources.

Oh so this isn’t the first time he’s mishandled classified info?

Stop breaking the law *******! I’ve been told repeatedly that we’re a republic of law and order. Maybe it’s time for Trumpers to get mad at their god king for breaking the law?

FBI search at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home tied to classified material, sources say

In a lengthy statement Monday night, Trump said, “They even broke into my safe!”

www.nbcnews.com

 

[The Thriller]

This is pretty amazing. Trevor Noah nails it


View: https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1557141679802548227?s=21&t=sitYWRogKqBkhf569SHLkg