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Following Potential 2025 Draftees

If Ace drops I say we leverage the fact that we can trade with Brooklyn to get a free pick from Washington. We still get likely the same guy we would have picked at 5.

Dont want to actually deal with Brooklyn since I want Fears or Tre in that instance (assuming VJ is gone).

There is a chance they play us and dont pick Ace but take our guy instead.. and in that case we got Konned (or you could also say we got our Knueppels twisted).
This is the play. I think you'd have to have the right intel and Was could be bluffing but this is in their playbook from last year. I think NOP and Brooklyn also could be suitors there but like you said there is some risk there. I'm comfortable keeping Ace and figuring it out though so its a bluff on a bluff.
 
Andy basically dumped on a lot of the nonsense Leif has been selling regarding trades and the draft. Leif is a tough listen. He's been so hyperfocused on Tre and making the most ridiculous stretches to fit the love that for his sake I hope he doesn't suck.

Maybe the homer/stan argument appeals to a broader audience, but ironically I thought Andy did a better job arguing for Tre. He demonstrated that he has fair, measured POV and still has Tre high. For me, the most compelling argument is showing a strong process that landed on a conclusion rather than the other away around. Spamming terrible arguments to support a guy makes it look worse.

Or you could just use the analytical model of PPG.
 
I didn't care much about whatever his model is per se. I just think the narrative of the big swing is dumb and guys been selling it so hard on X. Yes you need a great ball in hand guy... no it shouldn't be the sole focus of your draft and no you shouldn't stretch to force an okay ball in hand guy to be the "big swing" you need to take. Being great offball is a feature... not a bug to me. If I had a chance to take someone dynamic with the ball in their hand I would if the other stuff lines up. There are lots of ways to hit home runs in the draft.

The trade stuff Leif has been spewing is the stuff I roll my eyes at.

I stg if you made an argument for why VJ, Kon, or another “safe” prospect could bust it would make them a “big swing” and thus have more potential to some people. It really doesn’t work that way.

I also find it hilarious that at this exact moment in time we don’t have the imagination to see players increasing their usage in the NBA. Shai and Hali were 22% and 20% usage guys coming into the NBA. Why are we putting such hard ceilings on players based on the roles they played in college?
 
Maybe the homer/stan argument appeals to a broader audience, but ironically I thought Andy did a better job arguing for Tre. He demonstrated that he has fair, measured POV and still has Tre high. For me, the most compelling argument is showing a strong process that landed on a conclusion rather than the other away around. Spamming terrible arguments to support a guy makes it look worse.

Or you could just use the analytical model of PPG.
We are like a week away from him saying Tre is kind of like Giannis.
 
We are like a week away from him saying Tre is kind of like Giannis.

When he said a cliffhanger that went “I have a comparison for Tre and I think you’re gonna love it” I just bursted out laughing. No, I don’t love that at all. It doesn’t make me excited about Tre. Instead, it makes me think about dropping him because I don’t want to have close to the same conclusion as this clown behavior.
 
My brother... this board never forgets.

Okay, here are a few takes for the future you can hold against me ----

** I think Tre Johnson is one of the most exciting pure scoring guard prospects since Ray Allen at Connecticut. And yes, I'm aware of guys like Klay Thompson, Devin Booker, Jamal Murray and Brad Beal. On the offensive side of the ball, I think Tre is more-or-less "can't miss." He's a quick-release shooter who can stop on a dime and hit from just about anywhere on the floor. He's excellent off of movement, to the point you could play him like Klay. He's physically developing at a good pace. I think he'll be able to pass well enough, and I think he can drive well enough. He doesn't know how to finish through contact or draw fouls at this stage, but he can work on those things. Like Keyonte, he's better off not trying to be your lead initiator, so he can just focus on scoring the ball and making plays off of his scoring as a primary option. I think Tre is the 3rd guy in this draft, behind Flagg and Harper, and Harper gets the nod mostly due to the positional value of a big lead guard who can put pressure on the rim.

** Ace Bailey is the de facto Paul George of this draft. But when I say this, I'm referring to PG coming out of Fresno State. Ace's ability to rise up and hit with range is pretty elite for an 18 y.o. I don't mind his irrational confidence. I think he does have a handle he can use and he should be more effective with NBA spacing. His problem is his high center of gravity and tight hips that currently kill his first step. I think he's a good athlete, even by NBA standards, and he should be a better, more creative version of Trey Murphy, who was also very limited on the ball coming into the league. I don't think Ace is actually that risky, despite the noise about his attitude and his inexperienced agent. The question with the Jazz is whether Ace clashes with the Jazz's desired playstyle. I have no idea what type of blueprint the Jazz want to build.

** I love Kon Knueppel's competitiveness, IQ, ability to process with the ball and his high skill level. I'm deeply concerned about his lack of footspeed. Like, if it turns out he can't play on the ball like a Walmart version of Luka Doncic, I'm not fully confident he can be a scorer in the mold of a Desmond Bane because I'm not sure how he gets space for himself. He might end up being a bigger version of Luke Kennard, who is also very skilled, but limited in role due to lack of physical tools. That is, Kon's lack of speed and burst might keep him from getting starter minutes. Even Brice Sensabaugh, whose athleticism is iffy, has advanced feel and timing shooting off the dribble. I'm not 100% sure that Kon has that at the current stage. Until yesterday, I didn't think the Jazz were actually serious about Kon.
 
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I think we've probably already established the context for Yang is that he played on a team with other great rebounders and that he wasn't one of their primary options on offense.

Just for fun though I found this website: https://www.asia-basket.com/China/basketball.aspx

Here are the Boban Marjanovic stats per 40 minutes: 31.9pts/15.3reb/4.9ast

More information, not necessarily helpful:

Yao Ming (C) 19 year old season in CBA: 21.2pts/14.5reb, Yao Ming Final year in CBA: 32.4pts/19reb.

Yi Jianlian (F) 19 year old season in CBA: 9.7pts/5.9reb, Yi Jianlian Final year in CBA before draft: 24.9pts/11.5reb

Zhou Qi (C)19 year old season in CBA: 15.8pts/9.7reb, Zhou Qi final year in CBA before draft 15.9pts/9.9reb

Wang Zhelin (C)19year old season in CBA 22.8pts/11.4reb, Wang Zhelin final year in CBA before draft 21.6[ts/11.5reb

Cui Yongxi (G) 19 year old season in CBA 11.9pts/5.5rpg, Cui Yongxi final year in CBA before draft 15.7pts/6.0rpg
 
Okay, here are a few takes for the future you can hold against me ----

** I think Tre Johnson is one of the most exciting pure scoring guard prospects since Ray Allen at Connecticut. And yes, I'm aware of guys like Klay Thompson, Devin Booker, Jamal Murray and Brad Beal. On the offensive side of the ball, I think Tre is more-or-less "can't miss." He's a quick-release shooter who can stop on a dime and hit from just about anywhere on the floor. He's excellent off of movement, to the point you could play him like Klay. He's physically developing at a good pace. I think he'll be able to pass well enough, and I think he can drive well enough. He doesn't know how to finish through contact or draw fouls at this stage, but he can work on those things. Like Keyonte, he's better off not trying to be your lead initiator, so he can just focus on scoring the ball and making plays off of his scoring as a primary option. I think Tre is the 3rd guy in this draft, behind Flagg and Harper, and Harper gets the nod mostly due to the positional value of a big lead guard who can put pressure on the rim.

** Ace Bailey is the de facto Paul George of this draft. But when I say this, I'm referring to PG coming out of Fresno State. Ace's ability to rise up and hit with range is pretty elite for an 18 y.o. I don't mind his irrational confidence. I think he does have a handle he can use and he should be more effective with NBA spacing. His problem is his high center of gravity and tight hips that currently kill his first step. I think he's a good athlete, even by NBA standards, and he should be a better, more creative version of Trey Murphy, who was also very limited on the ball coming into the league. I don't think Ace is actually that risky, despite the noise about his attitude and his inexperienced agent. The question with the Jazz is whether Ace clashes with the Jazz's desired playstyle. I have no idea what type of blueprint the Jazz want to build.

** I love Kon Knueppel's competitiveness, IQ, ability to process with the ball and his high skill level. I'm deeply concerned about his lack of footspeed. Like, if it turns out he can't play on the ball like a Walmart version of Luka Doncic, I'm not fully confident he can be a scorer in the mold of a Desmond Bane because I'm not sure how he gets space for himself. He might end up being a bigger version of Luke Kennard, who is also very skilled, but limited in role due to lack of physical tools. That is, Kon's lack of speed and burst might keep him from getting starter minutes. Even Brice Sensabaugh, whose athleticism is iffy, has advanced feel and timing shooting off the dribble. I'm not 100% sure that Kon has that at the current stage. Until yesterday, I didn't think the Jazz were actually serious about Kon.
sometimes i think you are the poster i disagree with most, then you come at me with this. it's scary how much i agree with this.
 
Okay, here are a few takes for the future you can hold against me ----

** I think Tre Johnson is one of the most exciting pure scoring guard prospects since Ray Allen at Connecticut. And yes, I'm aware of guys like Klay Thompson, Devin Booker, Jamal Murray and Brad Beal. On the offensive side of the ball, I think Tre is more-or-less "can't miss." He's a quick-release shooter who can stop on a dime and hit from just about anywhere on the floor. He's excellent off of movement, to the point you could play him like Klay. He's physically developing at a good pace. I think he'll be able to pass well enough, and I think he can drive well enough. He doesn't know how to finish through contact or draw fouls at this stage, but he can work on those things. Like Keyonte, he's better off not trying to be your lead initiator, so he can just focus on scoring the ball and making plays off of his scoring as a primary option. I think Tre is the 3rd guy in this draft, behind Flagg and Harper, and Harper gets the nod mostly due to the positional value of a big lead guard who can put pressure on the rim.

** Ace Bailey is the de facto Paul George of this draft. But when I say this, I'm referring to PG coming out of Fresno State. Ace's ability to rise up and hit with range is pretty elite for an 18 y.o. I don't mind his irrational confidence. I think he does have a handle he can use and he should be more effective with NBA spacing. His problem is his high center of gravity and tight hips that currently kill his first step. I think he's a good athlete, even by NBA standards, and he should be a better, more creative version of Trey Murphy, who was also very limited on the ball coming into the league. I don't think Ace is actually that risky, despite the noise about his attitude and his inexperienced agent. The question with the Jazz is whether Ace clashes with the Jazz's desired playstyle. I have no idea what type of blueprint the Jazz want to build.

** I love Kon Knueppel's competitiveness, IQ, ability to process with the ball and his high skill level. I'm deeply concerned about his lack of footspeed. Like, if it turns out he can't play on the ball like a Walmart version of Luka Doncic, I'm not fully confident he can be a scorer in the mold of a Desmond Bane because I'm not sure how he gets space for himself. He might end up being a bigger version of Luke Kennard, who is also very skilled, but limited in role due to lack of physical tools. That is, Kon's lack of speed and burst might keep him from getting starter minutes. Even Brice Sensabaugh, whose athleticism is iffy, has advanced feel and timing shooting off the dribble. I'm not 100% sure that Kon has that at the current stage. Until yesterday, I didn't think the Jazz were actually serious about Kon.
Saying things like Kon might be a "Walmart Luka" makes this board dumber just by having to read it.
 
Saying things like Kon might be a "Walmart Luka" makes this board dumber just by having to read it.

A lesser player in that floor leader role. With Kon, it’s a question of what role he can realistically play at the next level.

What can he do when he has NBA defenders in front of him?

And listening to you glaze Hansen Yang is embarrassing.
 
I think overreliance on player comps is the worst way to talk about the draft.
Yeah, but comps can be a useful tool when done right - when they compare a draft prospect with NBA players who, before entering the NBA, were similar to the prospect in question (age, skillset, archetype, playing style, physical attributes, etc), and then see how these NBA players developed over time.
 
It creates a point of reference that otherwise wouldn’t exist to the average post reader.
No, it just creates unrealistic expectations. We should evaluate players as individuals.

If you want to give someone a point of reference, just them an archetype you see them playing. Not a player.

Kon can do some playmaking without being labeled "Walmart Luka".
 
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