General Conference - Fall 2010

[BabyPeterzz]

Reminds me of this gem:


When will MAN learn that he is NOT God, and that the spew that comes out of our minds/mouths isn't fact, and that they are, no ****, not infallible? This kind of stuff drives me batty.

Here's another winner of his from 1977:

"We've always counseled in the Church for our Mexican members to marry Mexicans, our Japanese members to marry Japanese, our Caucasians to marry Caucasians, our Polynesian members to marry Polynesians. The counsel has been wise. You may say again, "Well, I know of exceptions." I do, too, and they've been very successful marriages. I know some of them. You might even say, "I can show you local Church leaders or perhaps even general leaders who have married out of their race." I say, "Yes--exceptions." Then I would remind you of that Relief Society woman's near-scriptural statement, "We'd like to follow the rule first, and then we'll take care of the exceptions."

Boyd K Packer - 1977

 

[Archie Moses]

I'm surprised nobody spoke about this sooner. Pure rubbish.

Some of the quotes from that article will be/are cringe worthy.



This is so frustrating on so many levels. My friends baby is dying from Cystic Fibrosis. Why would Heavenly Father do that to anyone, let alone a 1 year old? Horrible quote. Just horrible.

Reminds me of this gem:


When will MAN learn that he is NOT God, and that the spew that comes out of our minds/mouths isn't fact, and that they are, no ****, not infallible? This kind of stuff drives me batty.

Trout, I'm not sure what you are getting at, but are you disagreeing with Packer? Did his talk upset you?

 

[CONAN]

No more sleep overs for me.

What did I sleep through here?

 

[Bronco70]

No more sleep overs for me.

What did I sleep through here?

Someone - I think it was Mervyn Arnold, but I may be wrong (I'm more of a casual listener than a note taker) - railed briefly on "sleep overs". Apparently this is where children are being introduced to everything bad and lawless.

 

[KatieMCR]

I'm surprised nobody spoke about this sooner. Pure rubbish.

Some of the quotes from that article will be/are cringe worthy.



This is so frustrating on so many levels. My friends baby is dying from Cystic Fibrosis. Why would Heavenly Father do that to anyone, let alone a 1 year old? Horrible quote. Just horrible.

Reminds me of this gem:


When will MAN learn that he is NOT God, and that the spew that comes out of our minds/mouths isn't fact, and that they are, no ****, not infallible? This kind of stuff drives me batty.

Well said Trout.

I find this part of the article especially troubling:

Packer’s current comments could lead to more suicides among gay Mormons and to more LDS families rejecting their gay children, warned Duane Jennings, who co-directs the Salt Lake chapter of Affirmation, a support group for gay and lesbian Mormons.

There has already been an increase in news stories of teens committing suicide due to all the bullying they receive. This message of hate from Packer will not help that at all. I have personally experienced the rejection of family due to the teachings of the church. I know how it stings. Packer's talk is extremely upsetting. I am worried about what this will do to all the LGBT youth still in the church.

 

[Archie Moses]

This message of hate from Packer will not help that at all.

Did you listen to the talk by chance? I don't think it was a message of hate at all. Packer focused on the importance of family and said they aren't going to change their views on marriage. Hardly "hateful".

 

[Golfman]

It's not a message of hate at all.

I don't understand why some people think it's hateful to say that homosexuality is immoral. Mormons also believe that smoking and drinking alcohol is immoral. Does that mean we hate everybody that drinks or smokes? Nope.

As for the whole genetics or choice thing with homosexuality, I think everybody can agree that some people have more homosexual tendencies than others, just as some people have more alcoholic tendencies than others. Alcoholism runs in families, and it surely has a genetic component to it. Does that mean that people with those tendencies for alcoholism should be exempt from the Mormon belief to abstain from alcohol? Surely not. Likewise, just because someone may have more gay tendencies than others doesn't mean they have to succumb to those feelings. And I don't even know if tendency is the right word to use there, but whatever.

We all have our trials in life. I have my own. Some people are tempted and seem to be genetically wired with gay tendencies, others with alcohol, others with pornography, others with smoking.

It's hardly hateful for a church to just stand up for what they believe is right and what they believe is wrong. The church still teaches to love everybody, but loving everybody doesn't mean we have to say that everything they do is morally correct.

 

[Archie Moses]

It's not a message of hate at all.

I don't understand why some people think it's hateful to say that homosexuality is immoral. Mormons also believe that smoking and drinking alcohol is immoral. Does that mean we hate everybody that drinks or smokes? Nope.

As for the whole genetics or choice thing with homosexuality, I think everybody can agree that some people have more homosexual tendencies than others, just as some people have more alcoholic tendencies than others. Alcoholism runs in families, and it surely has a genetic component to it. Does that mean that people with those tendencies for alcoholism should be exempt from the Mormon belief to abstain from alcohol? Surely not. Likewise, just because someone may have more gay tendencies than others doesn't mean they have to succumb to those feelings. And I don't even know if tendency is the right word to use there, but whatever.

We all have our trials in life. I have my own. Some people are tempted and seem to be genetically wired with gay tendencies, others with alcohol, others with pornography, others with smoking.

It's hardly hateful for a church to just stand up for what they believe is right and what they believe is wrong. The church still teaches to love everybody, but loving everybody doesn't mean we have to say that everything they do is morally correct.

This. +1

 

[KatieMCR]

Did you listen to the talk by chance? I don't think it was a message of hate at all. Packer focused on the importance of family and said they aren't going to change their views on marriage. Hardly "hateful".

I will admit that I did not listen to the talk. My knowledge of the talk comes from quotes I have read in news articles online. I find it to be a message of hate due to something I already touched on. Think about the LGBT youth who are being raised in the LDS church. How do you think they will react to hearing the things said in this talk? How do you think their families and peers will treat them based on what Packer preached in this talk? I have seen what these words do to people. As I already said, I have experienced it first hand with my own family. These words cut deep. I call that a hateful message.

Someone on Facebook made a good post about this topic. Below is a portion to backup why I feel this is a message of hate.

The message delivered from the LDS pulpit continues to be a message of false hope, of misery, and of death for our LGBT children. LGBT youth are FOUR TIMES more likely to attempt suicide than their peers and they make up somewhere between twenty and forty percent of the homeless youth population—despite making up less than ten percent of the population of youth as a whole.

Link to full post

 

[TroutBum]

Kaite -

We agree, but we disagree. It was far from a message of hate, but more of a message of ignorance. It disturbs me that you base your conclusions on quotes you read on other websites, almost certainly pro-GLBT websites/anti-mormon sites.

 

[Archie Moses]

You keep saying it's a message of "hate" but I'm not sure you understand what the word "hate" means. Hate is a strong word to use, especially for someone who didn't listen to the talk, don't you think? I can assure you the LDS church does not "hate" or preach "hate" to the LGBT community.

 

[Archie Moses]

It was far from a message of hate, but more of a message of ignorance.

Trout, so you're saying that an apostle of the LDS church, who supposedly guides and directs the church through modern day revelation is ignorant? I mean, I know a man is only a man (revelations have changed what previously leaders have thought and said), but if you are at this point, why believe? If I, being a member of a church that proclaims to be the only true and restored church, ever got to the point of thinking that the leaders are ignorant, I know I wouldn't want a thing to do with it. I would simply stop to believe in it's divinity and look for another truth.

 

[KatieMCR]

Kaite -

We agree, but we disagree. It was far from a message of hate, but more of a message of ignorance. It disturbs me that you base your conclusions on quotes you read on other websites, almost certainly pro-GLBT websites/anti-mormon sites.

No I have read quotes on SLTrib.com and KSL.com. Hardly pro-GLBT websites.

You keep saying it's a message of "hate" but I'm not sure you understand what the word "hate" means. Hate is a strong word to use, especially for someone who didn't listen to the talk, don't you think? I can assure you the LDS church does not "hate" or preach "hate" to the LGBT community.

I can agree with both of you on my usage of the word hate. I do tend to riled up when I hear of things like this coming from the leaders of the LDS church. I am passionate about this, because I have seen first hand how it divides and tears families apart. Yet the LDS church preaches so strongly of the importance of family.

 

[The-Joker]

I will admit that I did not listen to the talk. My knowledge of the talk comes from quotes I have read in news articles online. I find it to be a message of hate due to something I already touched on. Think about the LGBT youth who are being raised in the LDS church. How do you think they will react to hearing the things said in this talk? How do you think their families and peers will treat them based on what Packer preached in this talk? I have seen what these words do to people. As I already said, I have experienced it first hand with my own family. These words cut deep. I call that a hateful message.

Someone on Facebook made a good post about this topic. Below is a portion to backup why I feel this is a message of hate.

Get over yourself, this was not a hate fest, last time I checked "the brethren" support LGBT's receiving every single right straight people possess, except for marriage. That is where the "love" part comes in. They cannot under any circumstance support "gay marriage" because it sanctifies an action which is contrary to "The Plan of Salvation," that being procreation.
Now I'm as "pro-equality" as anyone you'll find, and I even support LGBT's receiving the right of state marriage. But you cannot go around claiming that the things the Church do are "hate-crimes", because it is not about an innate dislike of the things gays do, it is about "The Plan". It's always been about "the plan" and it always will be about "the plan". Are things that some church members do to ostracize and belittle gays, hateful.... YES. But that is not the church, that is like saying The Catholic church advocates child rape.

 

[The-Joker]

No I have read quotes on SLTrib.com and KSL.com. Hardly pro-GLBT websites.



I can agree with both of you on my usage of the word hate. I do tend to riled up when I hear of things like this coming from the leaders of the LDS church. I am passionate about this, because I have seen first hand how it divides and tears families apart. Yet the LDS church preaches so strongly of the importance of family.

Pornography, alcoholism, and adultery also tear families apart. But you don't see the church condoning those actions for the sake of keeping the family together.

Any convert will tell you, that keeping the doctrine is the first priority and maintaining ties to family, friends, and culture come second. Can those things compromise the position of a convert/member... yes, but the bottom line is the law.

 

[KatieMCR]

I can now say that I have listened to Packer's talk. I watched a complete video of it on KSL.com. The quotes I read online were 100% correct. After watching the talk, my opinions are still the same. The only thing I will take back is my usage of the word hate. I will admit it was not a message of hate. I still feel that it is a hurtful message to any LGBT members of the church.

 

[Bronco70]

Katie - It's unfortunate that when some GLBT issue comes to the forefront, you immediately jump on the defensive, and generally start pointing fingers. While the GLBT community has undoubtedly endured more than their share of persecution, I think it does not help your cause to pick some other group to blame. Obviously, you have an ax to grind. But it is misguided to correlate the church's position on homosexuality with an individual's tendencies toward suicide. The church will always view homosexual behavior as immoral and improper, but will also always stick to the doctrine of loving one's fellow men, regardless of their condition. I've been LDS all my life, and I've never been taught that I should hate gay people. Some will hate, I understand that. But the blame lies with the individual, and the choices they make regarding those around them. I don't believe the church has ever taken someone's temple recommend away because they love and support their gay son or daughter.

You need to start differentiating between church directives and individual behaviors. You don't have to condone somebody's lifestyle to love and respect them.

 

[The-Joker]

I can now say that I have listened to Packer's talk. I watched a complete video of it on KSL.com. The quotes I read online were 100% correct. After watching the talk, my opinions are still the same. The only thing I will take back is my usage of the word hate. I will admit it was not a message of hate. I still feel that it is a hurtful message to any LGBT members of the church.

Got pride?

When has any LDS official used the term "hate" to describe anyone (without getting apprehended) let alone a large group of people?

I think you feel like the church has a special grudge against gays, and that's just not the case.

 

[colton]

It's not a message of hate at all.

I don't understand why some people think it's hateful to say that homosexuality is immoral. Mormons also believe that smoking and drinking alcohol is immoral. Does that mean we hate everybody that drinks or smokes? Nope.

As for the whole genetics or choice thing with homosexuality, I think everybody can agree that some people have more homosexual tendencies than others, just as some people have more alcoholic tendencies than others. Alcoholism runs in families, and it surely has a genetic component to it. Does that mean that people with those tendencies for alcoholism should be exempt from the Mormon belief to abstain from alcohol? Surely not. Likewise, just because someone may have more gay tendencies than others doesn't mean they have to succumb to those feelings. And I don't even know if tendency is the right word to use there, but whatever.

We all have our trials in life. I have my own. Some people are tempted and seem to be genetically wired with gay tendencies, others with alcohol, others with pornography, others with smoking.

It's hardly hateful for a church to just stand up for what they believe is right and what they believe is wrong. The church still teaches to love everybody, but loving everybody doesn't mean we have to say that everything they do is morally correct.

This. +1

+2

Well said, Golfman.

Everything I've heard from the church (in recent years, anyway), is "control your behavior even if you can't control your tendencies". As opposed to, "Let your tendencies control your behavior", which unfortunately is what popular culture mostly teaches these days.

 

[KatieMCR]

Katie - It's unfortunate that when some GLBT issue comes to the forefront, you immediately jump on the defensive, and generally start pointing fingers. While the GLBT community has undoubtedly endured more than their share of persecution, I think it does not help your cause to pick some other group to blame. Obviously, you have an ax to grind. But it is misguided to correlate the church's position on homosexuality with an individual's tendencies toward suicide. The church will always view homosexual behavior as immoral and improper, but will also always stick to the doctrine of loving one's fellow men, regardless of their condition. I've been LDS all my life, and I've never been taught that I should hate gay people. Some will hate, I understand that. But the blame lies with the individual, and the choices they make regarding those around them. I don't believe the church has ever taken someone's temple recommend away because they love and support their gay son or daughter.

You need to start differentiating between church directives and individual behaviors. You don't have to condone somebody's lifestyle to love and respect them.

I agree with you. I have been working to separate the way I have been treated personally from the LDS church as a whole and its members. I know I still have work to do. I have been bitter towards the church for many years. I have been working to let go of those bitter feelings. It has helped that I have come into contact with many LDS members who treat me with respect, and do not judge me. If you knew my entire life story, you might understand why I feel this way. I still do not agree with what the church says about homosexuality. With that said, I cannot stay silent on this issue. If I feel something being said can cause harm to the LGBT community, I will challenge it.