Hayward is fool's gold

[Ron Mexico]

Hayward has closed gap on shooting, Klay still better. But Klay has defenses focused on KD, Steph, whereas GH has to create own shot more frequently. Still their efficiencies are similar. Defense is a push. Hayward much better on the boards and creating shots for others.

Despite W's notoriety, sportswriters picked GH over KT in All NBA voting.

I won't debate your 30 GMs comments since I don't talk to them, but I would say it is a dubious and unsupported statement.

There is no way Klays efficiency stays the same if he became the focal point of an offense and was double teamed as much as Hayward and had the kind of focus that Hayward gets. Klay has the most wide open shots of any player in the NBA.

 

[Deleted member 5000]

Naw Gtime is a top 15 player after his end of this season /playoff performance

 

[Deleted member 5000]

Even him he was from kenya hes still top 15 bruh

 

[LoPo]

Klay vs Hayward is irrelevant. I have an opinion and some of you have a different opinion.

At the end of the day, we probably won't have either to start the 2017-18 season.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Hekate]

Well, I needed a laugh.

 

[Deleted member 5000]

Klay is a overrated just a little, he's not hayward.

Best players in the game would be durant lebron kawhi westbrook harden curry chris paul butler kyrie, then it gets controversial but id put hayward in this next tier before the bigs like anthony davis

 

[gregbroncs]

I keep seeing people reference how much cap room we will have if Hayward leaves. Correct me please if I'm wrong but I'm not seeing all this room.

At most we'll have 33M in cap room. That only happens if Diaw, Hill, Mack, Withey, Ingles, and Neto also are gone. That would leave us with 10 players total on the roster and 31M dollars to fill out the other 5 spots. Not a lot of money at all unless you fill the roster with D-league scrubs.

So
Gobert
Favors
Burks
Exum
Hood
Johnson
Lyles
Bolomboy
2 draft picks

That roster costs 68M dollars.

Room to work with but not really tons of cap room, considering how many spots you have to fill.

 

[Deleted member 5000]

the GSW superteam only came to be because they have Curry on the all time best bargain ever hes getting paid similar to what we pay alec burks

 

[ncoloradojazz]

Gobert is an offensive question mark. Sure his defense is top 5 hands down but you can't be a top 10 player if your an offensive liability. Top 10 players can get Their own buckets whenever. Gobert can not. He is a top defensive player no doubt but bball isn't football. Points when the game and getting buckets win chips. Yes thenpistons were a defensive team and win a chip but thats the one example.


QUOTE=Et tu Brute;1432004]It is inconceivable to me how the Jazz FO have let them get themselves into this predicament where it feels like their whole game plan was to resign Hay.

The best player on the Jazz team by FARRRRRRRRR is Gobert. It's not even close. Based on RPM, Gobert is already a top 8 player.
They struck gold by extending him when they did.

Gordo is a really nice two way player. But that is it. He is not a top 15 player and probably never will be. What part of his game are people expecting him to improve upon? He is already perhaps maxing out his ability.

Gallinari is pretty much an equitable replacement (only 18 months older). Furthermore he can play 3 or 4. Gordo is replaceable - unlike Rudy.

The worst thing about GH leaving is the lack of compensation. That is shattering! But, think of the cap space....


Also, cause I think the sun shines out of Exum's bum, it is hard for me to get excited about the Jazz running this thing back.[/QUOTE]

 

[ncoloradojazz]

Lmao. Klay is better then Hayward. If Hayward goes to Boston He will be option 3 or 4. On jazz he is option one which makes it more funny that y'all think your close to the Warriors with Hayward as the number one option. Face it even the white boy y'all drafted wants to leave salt lake as soon as he can lmao


QUOTE=rare144;1432190]Klay is a overrated just a little, he's not hayward.

Best players in the game would be durant lebron kawhi westbrook harden curry chris paul butler kyrie, then it gets controversial but id put hayward in this next tier before the bigs like anthony davis[/QUOTE]

 

[ncoloradojazz]

Homerism at its finest is putting Hayward above Anthony Davis because not a single gm in the league would pickK Hayward over AD

 

[ncoloradojazz]

Rare has zero bball iq .isn't he the same one thinking Mason going round 1. Lmao... That's lol then most crazy statement I have heard about the draft. Whoever bet him money is about to get paid. I want in on that if rare just handing out free dinero.I'll bet you anytime brother

 

[ncoloradojazz]

Welcome back to the lottery with that squad unless Gobert gets wilt the stilt type game during this offseason



QUOTE=gregbroncs;1432195]I keep seeing people reference how much cap room we will have if Hayward leaves. Correct me please if I'm wrong but I'm not seeing all this room.

At most we'll have 33M in cap room. That only happens if Diaw, Hill, Mack, Withey, Ingles, and Neto also are gone. That would leave us with 10 players total on the roster and 31M dollars to fill out the other 5 spots. Not a lot of money at all unless you fill the roster with D-league scrubs.

So
Gobert
Favors
Burks
Exum
Hood
Johnson
Lyles
Bolomboy
2 draft picks

That roster costs 68M dollars.

Room to work with but not really tons of cap room, considering how many spots you have to fill.[/QUOTE]

 

[Deleted member 5000]

Rare has zero bball iq .isn't he the same one thinking Mason going round 1. Lmao... That's lol then most crazy statement I have heard about the draft. Whoever bet him money is about to get paid. I want in on that if rare just handing out free dinero.I'll bet you anytime brother

I only make gentlemen's bets which disqualifies you. You're not even funny I ought to have cappy smurf pay you a visit

 

[silesian]

Top 10 players can get Their own buckets whenever.

Bill Russell, Bill Walton, Dennis Rodman -- not top 10 players. Apparently.

 

[Et tu Brute]

2015-16 Gallo was 67th, Hayward was 30th
2016-17 Gallo was 76th, Hayward was 19th.

Your argument would have more weight if you stopped cherry picking data.

I did note that it was 'recency biased'.

Also, I cherry-picked from a full season. Not sure that counts as cherry picking.

Also... made u look didn't I?

The best argument to make from the last few years data is that Hayward has maxed out his potential. Gallo hasn't.

 

[Et tu Brute]

I don't want him to walk. But we will survive if he does.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

This.

My OP may have sounded too aggressive.

But I am bemused by the hype around Hayward's free agency. Sure he is a max guy. But he is still a nice piece versus a franchise altering piece. This is a dude who tried to leave once already.


Proof is in the pudding. If 2014-15 was his best season (RPM suggests it was) - look where the Jazz finished!
Gobert is the primary reason the team is where it is now.

Hayward is nice and bring him back for sure.... But it's not all over if he doesn't. It was only one year ago that Hood was considered a viable alternative by many.

 

[Et tu Brute]

How many superstars are there in the league? 6, maybe 7?

Kawhi
Durant
LeBron
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis

So if you don't have anyone on that level, just let them walk, yeah?

Hayward is on the same tier as Butler and George. Klay is a tier-below them. He's not a big playoff scorer like the other three. He can get hot, but he's a catch and shoot guy.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

There are more tiers than this.

You left off CP3 off your list btw.

But above Hayward are a number of players:

Cousins
Gobert
Conley
Greek Freak
Lowry
Butler
Blake
Green
Conley
Love

And that's ignoring the players who project to be better than Hayward over the next contract:
Jokic
Lillard
Embiid
Simmons
Fultz
Booker
Porzingis
KAT
Porter
Covington
Kyrie


He is on the tier below all of them moving forward.

Now I get that Hayward is a versatile son of a gun. He can create his own shot, knock down 3s and get to the line. He can share the ball and rebound, while being able to stay in front of most 3s and bang down low with some 4s. He is a really really nice player.

But his walking will not be the single factor that stops the Jazz being able to achieve a championship. Nor will it be enough for the Celtics to get out of the East.

Also, I would take George everyday of the week over Hayward.

 

[Et tu Brute]

I keep seeing people reference how much cap room we will have if Hayward leaves. Correct me please if I'm wrong but I'm not seeing all this room.

At most we'll have 33M in cap room. That only happens if Diaw, Hill, Mack, Withey, Ingles, and Neto also are gone. That would leave us with 10 players total on the roster and 31M dollars to fill out the other 5 spots. Not a lot of money at all unless you fill the roster with D-league scrubs.

So
Gobert
Favors
Burks
Exum
Hood
Johnson
Lyles
Bolomboy
2 draft picks

That roster costs 68M dollars.

Room to work with but not really tons of cap room, considering how many spots you have to fill.

Surely Burks contract will be worked off the books one way or another.

I personally would like to see him get plenty of burn next year.

 

[Et tu Brute]

Not sure what "superstar" means, it is typically a top 5 player. I have not heard anyone call Hayward a superstar, so I think you are in a monologue, not an argument. Hayward is pretty universally considered a mere "star" at this stage.

Eyeballing salaries, there are >60 max contracts, or ~two per team on average. I don't think there are 60+ superstars.

All Star. Happy?