How did Exum look last night?

[Siro]

I thought Quin just went back to his strict rotations.

Honestly, Dante played really bad and brought no energy in his 1st 4 minutes but after he missed that open layup he seemed to kick into gear. If Quin had sat him the rest of the game I would have understood that decision but to be benched later after having a significant impact on the game I dont understand. Never will.

And no this isnt an Exum thing. This is a wanting to see the Jazz win thing. Id be just as pissed if it was AB or ONeal or Neto or ANYONE.

Wasn't Exum on the floor for 8 straight minutes?He was only taken out for the final stretch.

I think he should've gotten a few more minutes in the first half.

 

[elan_prodigy]

Wasn't Exum on the floor for 8 straight minutes?He was only taken out for the final stretch.

I think he should've gotten a few more minutes in the first half.

Nah he played 2-4mins in the 1st half but started slow. He didn't come back at the end of the 3rd and I thought he was done for the night but then he appeared in the 4th and basically put up his stat line in 4 mins. Then he got benched.

 

[MDAV28]

Wasn't Exum on the floor for 8 straight minutes?He was only taken out for the final stretch.

I think he should've gotten a few more minutes in the first half.

Exum did terrible in the first half (although Rubio wasn't playing much better).

 

[Quin's Murderface]

Exum did terrible in the first half (although Rubio wasn't playing much better).

Terrible is quite an overstatement. Please go back and watch that sequence. He had a TO to start and then after that made some solid plays. He had an assist for a 3, he missed a layup on a good cut, he tipped in a miss on a fastbreak, and was pretty nondescript the rest of the time. Only with Dante is this a "horrible stretch". It was not a great stretch, but not really even a bad one either. The only thing I can think of is that he almost had another TO on a fast break where two bigs filled the middle of the lane instead of spacing correctly. Maybe Quin thought he was out of control or something. But in normal Quin fashion he immediately panics and goes to pulling Dante as his first move when he feels uncomfortable

All I want as a Dante agnostic is to see him get the same treatment as a guy like Donovan. Or if that is too much how about just treat him like 2/3's of the prospect that Donovan is. Give him the same respect you have been giving Royce O'neale. Since his return Exum has been playing better and should start eating Royce's minutes for the good of the team and for the good of his development. If he fails and sucks then at least we know. Stop holding him back artificially

 

[Siro]

I'm not a huge fan of what Royce gives you, and I would rather see what Exum would do with increased minutes.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not a huge fan of what Royce gives you, and I would rather see what Exum would do with increased minutes.

I wish Royce was just shooting good again... we could use both guys tbh.

Royce’s rebounding would have been helpful.

 

[bigmike]

I'm in the camp of wanting to see Dante more time.

Haven't paid much attention to his D, but unless he's killing us on that end, he's been such a plus on offense that I really think it's in our best interest to have him out there at least 12-18 minutes. It's brutal to watch Rubio on nights like last night, Boston wasn't even guarding him.

 

[MDAV28]

Terrible is quite an overstatement. Please go back and watch that sequence. He had a TO to start and then after that made some solid plays. He had an assist for a 3, he missed a layup on a good cut, he tipped in a miss on a fastbreak, and was pretty nondescript the rest of the time. Only with Dante is this a "horrible stretch". It was not a great stretch, but not really even a bad one either. The only thing I can think of is that he almost had another TO on a fast break where two bigs filled the middle of the lane instead of spacing correctly. Maybe Quin thought he was out of control or something. But in normal Quin fashion he immediately panics and goes to pulling Dante as his first move when he feels uncomfortable

All I want as a Dante agnostic is to see him get the same treatment as a guy like Donovan. Or if that is too much how about just treat him like 2/3's of the prospect that Donovan is. Give him the same respect you have been giving Royce O'neale. Since his return Exum has been playing better and should start eating Royce's minutes for the good of the team and for the good of his development. If he fails and sucks then at least we know. Stop holding him back artificially

I may not be around here enough to have a reputation but I am 100% a Dante believer and I 100% believe he has the talent to contribute given opportunity and a lot of the criticism placed on his shoulders comes down to not getting the opportunity to do what he does best, and that is with the ball in his hands.

With that being said, he was terrible last night in the first half. Came in, immediately lost his assignment off-ball (Nader I think) on defense and then threw TO's and bad passes in his stint. Dante immediately got pulled for going under a screen allowing an open Larkin 3. You can even see Quin stand up while the ball is in the air to get Rubio in.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

I may not be around here enough to have a reputation but I am 100% a Dante believer and I 100% believe he has the talent to contribute given opportunity and a lot of the criticism placed on his shoulders comes down to not getting the opportunity to do what he does best, and that is with the ball in his hands.

With that being said, he was terrible last night in the first half. Came in, immediately lost his assignment off-ball (Nader I think) on defense and then threw TO's and bad passes in his stint. Dante immediately got pulled for going under a screen allowing an open Larkin 3. You can even see Quin stand up while the ball is in the air to get Rubio in.

He had one TO in the game. He didn't throw bad passes. He threw one bad pass (a pass that other guys did multiple times as well), and one that the big kind of fumbled on the break but didn't lead to a TO. I remember him not losing Nader exactly but being slightly out of position and contesting a shot that I believe was missed. Other Jazz players got beat repeatedly back door. Rubio, Ingles, Mitchell have that happen all the time. It's a normal part of playing. The offense scores quite often and the defense breaks down.

And again the screen thing. I need to start tracking how often players do this. Jazz players are constantly getting caught up in screens or going under, or being out of position (as are all players) and only Dante gets pulled for it consistently. I just don't buy it. We are hyper sensitive to every Dante mistake because of how he has been covered and coached. It's crazy to me. I guarantee you I can find multiple guys going under on screens and not getting pulled from the game last night. We can nitpick every player if we want.

 

[MDAV28]

He had one TO in the game. He didn't throw bad passes. He threw one bad pass (a pass that other guys did multiple times as well), and one that the big kind of fumbled on the break but didn't lead to a TO. I remember him not losing Nader exactly but being slightly out of position and contesting a shot that I believe was missed. Other Jazz players got beat repeatedly back door. Rubio, Ingles, Mitchell have that happen all the time. It's a normal part of playing. The offense scores quite often and the defense breaks down.

And again the screen thing. I need to start tracking how often players do this. Jazz players are constantly getting caught up in screens or going under, or being out of position (as are all players) and only Dante gets pulled for it consistently. I just don't buy it. We are hyper sensitive to every Dante mistake because of how he has been covered and coached. It's crazy to me. I guarantee you I can find multiple guys going under on screens and not getting pulled from the game last night. We can nitpick every player if we want.

I realize it's subjective but his passes were not good.

Obviously it does happen, but you're wrong that Jazz are "constantly" getting caught up in screens or going under. Although I can't confirm since I'm not in the locker room, it is clear that the Jazz defensive game-plan is to pressure the ball handler (if they are a shooting threat) as much as possible on the screen and concede the midrange by funneling into our beast in the middle. Rubio, Ingles, Mitchell, O'Neale all do this regularly. Burks would always get pulled for the exact thing Dante got pulled for last night.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Nah he played 2-4mins in the 1st half but started slow. He didn't come back at the end of the 3rd and I thought he was done for the night but then he appeared in the 4th and basically put up his stat line in 4 mins. Then he got benched.

He missed 60+ games and still working back into game shape, it seems he's on a minute restriction anyways because of it.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

I realize it's subjective but his passes were not good.

Obviously it does happen, but you're wrong that Jazz are "constantly" getting caught up in screens or going under. Although I can't confirm since I'm not in the locker room, it is clear that the Jazz defensive game-plan is to pressure the ball handler (if they are a shooting threat) as much as possible on the screen and concede the midrange by funneling into our beast in the middle. Rubio, Ingles, Mitchell, O'Neale all do this regularly. Burks would always get pulled for the exact thing Dante got pulled for last night.

The Jazz players get caught up in screens all the time. The Jazz defense uses a combination of going over or under screen depending on the shooter and situation. I watched the first quarter again. Here are some basic bullet point plays.
-Mitchell got caught on a screen for the first three and had an early TO.
-Mitchell got caught on another screen and gave up a mid range jumper that Gobert late contested and was missed.
-Ingles made a bad pass to Rudy in traffic, Donovan got lost on another screen and gave up an open corner 3 that missed,
-Donovan and Rudy miscommunicated on a switch after a screen and gave up an open jumper. I think it was Donovan who was out of position but hard to say for sure.
-Ingles went under a screens several times on Brown but never when he shot one.

That was before Exum came in. Exum's plays were the following with either good or bad outcomes from him or others:
-His first play was a TO on an attempted leave pass to Favors.
-Then he was flare screened by a big while in help position which led to Nadir getting a rim attempt after a skip pass. Dante recovered but was beaten slightly off the dribble.
-Then he passed to Jerebko on a secondary break and Jerebko wisely stopped short and reset.
-Dante hit Jerebko for a jumper out of PnR.
-His next defensive possession he almost got beaten back door but noticed in time to recover before the pass was made.
-He made a pass to Ingles who turned it over on an attempted pass to Favors.
-Then he made an entry pass to Favors who bobbled it out of bounds.
-On the next defensive possession Ingles went under on a screen on Tatum and Tatum had an open 3 that he decided instead to pump fake and drive. He missed it.
-On the break Dante made a nice cut and Ingles hit him with a good pass that he missed.
-Exum went under a screen and nothing really came of it. There was a dump off to Monroe who got fouled, but the defense was solid positionally.
-Exum's next offensive possession he ran PnR and made a good read to Crowder who did a half drive and dish to Jerebko for a wide open corner 3.
-Ingles went under two more screens guarding Tatum in the next possession and Exum almost got a steal but lost it out of bounds.
-On the next possession there was a semi break and Exum drove the basket and dished off to Jerebko who threw up a crazy shot that Exum rebounded for a tip in.
- 28-20 Jazz. Exum went under and got caught on a screen and the guy hit a 3. Quin jumped up and motioned to sub him out. 28-23 Jazz.
- INgles has an open layup and throws up a really awkward flip shot that misses. the Jazz foul to avoid a break

Immediately after he is subbed out Ingles goes under two screens on Tatum and gives up a 3.

So basically I'm not really buying terrible, or even bad. He had two clearly bad plays, and one more that I would be ok saying was bad. He also had some nice plays and a ton of steady normal possessions defensively where he didn't really do anything great or bad. I don't think it is accurate to say that the Jazz are always going over and keeping tight with shooters. Dante definitely wasn't the only guy who gave up an open 3 point look and definitely wasn't the guy turning the ball over a bunch.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Rudy wasn't in the game with Exum at all in the first half. He subbed back in when Exum came out of the game.

 

[gomretat]

I think he missed an open Larkin early on.
Then got caught up on a screen for a Rozier three.
Then Rozier just nailed a great shot - with Exum all over him.

Exum had a nice block.
And no one could penetrate on him..

So yea, not great - but not horrendous right

That is a generous summary but long term his D is not a concern - even though he clearly was not the end of game solution last night. The more I watch him the more I think he will never be a good shooter. With his first step he at least needs to become good enough that it keeps people honest when guarding him. Hopefully it happens.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Terrible is quite an overstatement. Please go back and watch that sequence. He had a TO to start and then after that made some solid plays. He had an assist for a 3, he missed a layup on a good cut, he tipped in a miss on a fastbreak, and was pretty nondescript the rest of the time. Only with Dante is this a "horrible stretch". It was not a great stretch, but not really even a bad one either. The only thing I can think of is that he almost had another TO on a fast break where two bigs filled the middle of the lane instead of spacing correctly. Maybe Quin thought he was out of control or something. But in normal Quin fashion he immediately panics and goes to pulling Dante as his first move when he feels uncomfortable

All I want as a Dante agnostic is to see him get the same treatment as a guy like Donovan. Or if that is too much how about just treat him like 2/3's of the prospect that Donovan is. Give him the same respect you have been giving Royce O'neale. Since his return Exum has been playing better and should start eating Royce's minutes for the good of the team and for the good of his development. If he fails and sucks then at least we know. Stop holding him back artificially

His turnover was pretty bad though... not as bad as rubios on the delayed break. What got him benched is he dropped under a pick and a guy hit a three. Not sure who it was but if you watch the replay it happens and you can see him turn to the bench for Rubio immediately.

It does seem to be a different standard for Dante. I wouldn’t compare him to DM though. DM makes mistakes but I don’t think they are schematic or game plan mistakes.

I think Dante’s play has warranted more leash, but also think end of game I want joe ingles in and benching Rubio for the last couple minutes would have been a bad look and wouldn’t have meant a win.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We've reached a point in Royce's trajectory and with Dante coming back that Royce has to earn his place on the floor. If Royce isn't on, it's pretty rough out there offensively. Dante is probably a worse shooter, but at least he can create on-ball pressure.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

His turnover was pretty bad though... not as bad as rubios on the delayed break. What got him benched is he dropped under a pick and a guy hit a three. Not sure who it was but if you watch the replay it happens and you can see him turn to the bench for Rubio immediately.

It does seem to be a different standard for Dante. I wouldn’t compare him to DM though. DM makes mistakes but I don’t think they are schematic or game plan mistakes.

I think Dante’s play has warranted more leash, but also think end of game I want joe ingles in and benching Rubio for the last couple minutes would have been a bad look and wouldn’t have meant a win.

Oh I totally agree with that. I don't think he should have played at the end of the game. I'm fine with him just playing reserve minutes all year. Ricky is the starter and he should be in at the end unless there is some weird situation. I just get annoyed with all the nit-picking of Exum. Guys are making schematic and other mistakes all the time. There were a bunch of TO's that were as bad as Exum's SINGLE TO for the game. There were at least 2 other pretty much identical TO's by players. It's not a huge deal. I don't know why but every Exum mistake is put under a microscope or extrapolated into a larger number, or made somehow more severe than it is much of the time, imo.

 

[Et tu Brute]

I may not be around here enough to have a reputation but I am 100% a Dante believer and I 100% believe he has the talent to contribute given opportunity and a lot of the criticism placed on his shoulders comes down to not getting the opportunity to do what he does best, and that is with the ball in his hands.

With that being said, he was terrible last night in the first half. Came in, immediately lost his assignment off-ball (Nader I think) on defense and then threw TO's and bad passes in his stint. Dante immediately got pulled for going under a screen allowing an open Larkin 3. You can even see Quin stand up while the ball is in the air to get Rubio in.

ONE turnover.

 

[MDAV28]

The Jazz players get caught up in screens all the time. The Jazz defense uses a combination of going over or under screen depending on the shooter and situation. I watched the first quarter again. Here are some basic bullet point plays.
-Mitchell got caught on a screen for the first three and had an early TO.
-Mitchell got caught on another screen and gave up a mid range jumper that Gobert late contested and was missed.
-Ingles made a bad pass to Rudy in traffic, Donovan got lost on another screen and gave up an open corner 3 that missed,
-Donovan and Rudy miscommunicated on a switch after a screen and gave up an open jumper. I think it was Donovan who was out of position but hard to say for sure.
-Ingles went under a screens several times on Brown but never when he shot one.

That was before Exum came in. Exum's plays were the following with either good or bad outcomes from him or others:
-His first play was a TO on an attempted leave pass to Favors.
-Then he was flare screened by a big while in help position which led to Nadir getting a rim attempt after a skip pass. Dante recovered but was beaten slightly off the dribble.
-Then he passed to Jerebko on a secondary break and Jerebko wisely stopped short and reset.
-Dante hit Jerebko for a jumper out of PnR.
-His next defensive possession he almost got beaten back door but noticed in time to recover before the pass was made.
-He made a pass to Ingles who turned it over on an attempted pass to Favors.
-Then he made an entry pass to Favors who bobbled it out of bounds.
-On the next defensive possession Ingles went under on a screen on Tatum and Tatum had an open 3 that he decided instead to pump fake and drive. He missed it.
-On the break Dante made a nice cut and Ingles hit him with a good pass that he missed.
-Exum went under a screen and nothing really came of it. There was a dump off to Monroe who got fouled, but the defense was solid positionally.
-Exum's next offensive possession he ran PnR and made a good read to Crowder who did a half drive and dish to Jerebko for a wide open corner 3.
-Ingles went under two more screens guarding Tatum in the next possession and Exum almost got a steal but lost it out of bounds.
-On the next possession there was a semi break and Exum drove the basket and dished off to Jerebko who threw up a crazy shot that Exum rebounded for a tip in.
- 28-20 Jazz. Exum went under and got caught on a screen and the guy hit a 3. Quin jumped up and motioned to sub him out. 28-23 Jazz.
- INgles has an open layup and throws up a really awkward flip shot that misses. the Jazz foul to avoid a break

Immediately after he is subbed out Ingles goes under two screens on Tatum and gives up a 3.

So basically I'm not really buying terrible, or even bad. He had two clearly bad plays, and one more that I would be ok saying was bad. He also had some nice plays and a ton of steady normal possessions defensively where he didn't really do anything great or bad. I don't think it is accurate to say that the Jazz are always going over and keeping tight with shooters. Dante definitely wasn't the only guy who gave up an open 3 point look and definitely wasn't the guy turning the ball over a bunch.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Rudy wasn't in the game with Exum at all in the first half. He subbed back in when Exum came out of the game.

Good work on this, very thorough. I think you're confusing not executing with mental lapses on defense. If Donovan gets caught up on a screen, that's different than Exum not playing the game plan and going under when he shouldn't because Donovan is still playing the game plan. Even so, absolutely the starters have a much longer leash than Exum, why wouldn't they?

Also not all bad passes are TOs. He forced the ball into bad cuts, post areas etc. that didn't make sense and also threw one or two off target behind or at the feet. I appreciate you going through possession by possession but I hold that he had a very bad first half save for a couple plays, but maybe I am holding a higher expectation.

 

[tleikheen]

Exum has been in the Jazz locker room for along time ,longer than Mitchell ......to say Mitchell is going with the game plan and Exum isn't because Mitchell goes under the screen occasionally is OK but Exum is deviating from said gameplan if he goes under is BS.
In a close game it wasn't Exum causing Jazz to lose to a injury depleted Boston team ...I point my finger at a out coached Snyder for this Boston loss.

 

[Et tu Brute]

The Jazz players get caught up in screens all the time. The Jazz defense uses a combination of going over or under screen depending on the shooter and situation. I watched the first quarter again. Here are some basic bullet point plays.
-Mitchell got caught on a screen for the first three and had an early TO.
-Mitchell got caught on another screen and gave up a mid range jumper that Gobert late contested and was missed.
-Ingles made a bad pass to Rudy in traffic, Donovan got lost on another screen and gave up an open corner 3 that missed,
-Donovan and Rudy miscommunicated on a switch after a screen and gave up an open jumper. I think it was Donovan who was out of position but hard to say for sure.
-Ingles went under a screens several times on Brown but never when he shot one.

That was before Exum came in. Exum's plays were the following with either good or bad outcomes from him or others:
-His first play was a TO on an attempted leave pass to Favors.
-Then he was flare screened by a big while in help position which led to Nadir getting a rim attempt after a skip pass. Dante recovered but was beaten slightly off the dribble.
-Then he passed to Jerebko on a secondary break and Jerebko wisely stopped short and reset.
-Dante hit Jerebko for a jumper out of PnR.
-His next defensive possession he almost got beaten back door but noticed in time to recover before the pass was made.
-He made a pass to Ingles who turned it over on an attempted pass to Favors.
-Then he made an entry pass to Favors who bobbled it out of bounds.
-On the next defensive possession Ingles went under on a screen on Tatum and Tatum had an open 3 that he decided instead to pump fake and drive. He missed it.
-On the break Dante made a nice cut and Ingles hit him with a good pass that he missed.
-Exum went under a screen and nothing really came of it. There was a dump off to Monroe who got fouled, but the defense was solid positionally.
-Exum's next offensive possession he ran PnR and made a good read to Crowder who did a half drive and dish to Jerebko for a wide open corner 3.
-Ingles went under two more screens guarding Tatum in the next possession and Exum almost got a steal but lost it out of bounds.
-On the next possession there was a semi break and Exum drove the basket and dished off to Jerebko who threw up a crazy shot that Exum rebounded for a tip in.
- 28-20 Jazz. Exum went under and got caught on a screen and the guy hit a 3. Quin jumped up and motioned to sub him out. 28-23 Jazz.
- INgles has an open layup and throws up a really awkward flip shot that misses. the Jazz foul to avoid a break

Immediately after he is subbed out Ingles goes under two screens on Tatum and gives up a 3.

So basically I'm not really buying terrible, or even bad. He had two clearly bad plays, and one more that I would be ok saying was bad. He also had some nice plays and a ton of steady normal possessions defensively where he didn't really do anything great or bad. I don't think it is accurate to say that the Jazz are always going over and keeping tight with shooters. Dante definitely wasn't the only guy who gave up an open 3 point look and definitely wasn't the guy turning the ball over a bunch.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Rudy wasn't in the game with Exum at all in the first half. He subbed back in when Exum came out of the game.

Glad you went to the effort to do this. It shows that with Exum at this stage, Quin places a bigger onus on Exum doing the 'fundamentals' right all the time. He cuts slack with the established members. Logic I guess is that those other players have proved themselves and contribute nightly.

I like the fact this challenges those seemingly throw away lines like -"Exum was horrible in his first stint"//