If Boozer isn't worth $80 mil, who is?

[The Ghost of Blue Edwards]

Yea, but the Jazz don't have 80 million dollars to spend on a guy who's not going to deliver a championship to the franchise. I guess if you believe Boozer could bring a championship to Utah then the argument changes, but I'm not sure how anyone could believe that.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Players worth $80mm to the Jazz:
Garnett a few years ago
Pau Gasol
Dwight Howard
Maybe Brandon Roy in a year or two
Maybe Paul Pierce a few years ago
Maybe Ray Allen his last year or two with the Sonics
Dirk Nowitzki
Tim Duncan a few years ago
Maybe Chris Bosh

We signed Boozer for $68mm 5 years ago, and he exceeded expectations when he played hard. I agree with you that $80mm isn't too much for him. The issue is that he doesn't always play hard. One year he missed 1/3 of the season only to say he was healthy a day or two after the season ended.

Boozer at $80mm certainly isn't worse than AK at $70 million.

That list is all max players. Boozer did not sign for the max.

 

[richgates]

Whether or not they are Max players, you asked for a list and you got one. If you are looking for a different answer, perhaps you should ask a different question.

 

[Borat]

Is Boozer worth 5 years $80 million to those clubs with cap space. Yes, he is. Is he worth it to the Jazz and the huge lux tax payment that comes with him. No. This is still a buisness.

I think we are in agreement here: Booz is worth 80 mil in the absolute sense, but because Jazz FO and ownership poorly managed their roster and salary spending, we are unable to keep a star PF, who was gracious enough to give us a chance to match (I didn't think he would), and are forced to lose a player of such caliber (2nd best on the team, 2 time all star, 2 time all NBA, Olympic gold medalist, 20 and 10) for absolutely nothing in return, hence jeopardizing the return of out star PG, who said he wanted talent in order to stay in 2 years. Wouldn't you say, based on what we just agreed upon, this is pretty big screw up by FO/ownership (not just this year, but over the years that leas to this)?

The part about Deron is just poor research on your part. The Jazz tried with everything they had to Sign him to the full 5 years. DERON wouldn't do it. Opting to only sign for 3 years to see if the Jazz could stay competitive. Just like Lebron, Wade, and Bosh did to there teams. So don't be blaming that on the Jazz FO.

How many days before extension period was over did we agree to this unfavorable 3-year deal? I recall well - well before deadline. Correct me if I am wrong. And besides, as I just said, we didn't have to agree to it at all. Let him play, then match any offer next year. But it would not come down to that. When things would get tight, Deron would sign 5 year deal. You just don't pass up 5 year MAX deal when you just came off rookie contract. What if you get serious injury (a la Livingston, Jay Williams)? It's not like you already made 100 mil. You only made a few mil on rookie deal. You can't just refuse a deal worth 85 mil when you career earnings are 5 mil. But things never got tight. Just like with AK, Jazz managed to have all the aces up their sleeves and got played at the end. And now with FO fumbling away Booz for nothing, this 3 year deal might just bite us in the *** harder than we thought.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Whether or not they are Max players, you asked for a list and you got one. If you are looking for a different answer, perhaps you should ask a different question.

Again, if I ask for a list of players worth the mid level, are you going to list Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dwight Howard, and Chris Bosh?

Yeah, any team would be happy to get any of them for the mid level but it isn't happening. And no team is getting any of them for $80 mil either. They are all max players. That is what they are worth.

So, again, what players are worth $80 mil if Boozer isn't?

 

[Borat]

Again, if I ask for a list of players worth the mid level, are you going to list Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dwight Howard, and Chris Bosh?

Yeah, any team would be happy to get any of them for the mid level but it isn't happening. And no team is getting any of them for $80 mil either. They are all max players. That is what they are worth.

So, again, what players are worth $80 mil if Boozer isn't?

I would even add a second question that goes hand in hand with this one. Which 20 - 10 guys (or 19.5/11.2 - you get the point) aged 28 years signed for deals in recent memory for less than what Booz signed for?

 

[richgates]

Again, if I ask for a list of players worth the mid level, are you going to list Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Dwight Howard, and Chris Bosh?

Yeah, any team would be happy to get any of them for the mid level but it isn't happening. And no team is getting any of them for $80 mil either. They are all max players. That is what they are worth.

So, again, what players are worth $80 mil if Boozer isn't?

I think a mid level exception is a fair amount different than the $4 million a year that separates Boozer from a max contract. Boozer is not worth 80 million to the Jazz, period. The front office has spoken. If you disagree with it, that's fine but ultimately you're not the one signing the checks. Do I think Boozer is worth 80 million to the Bulls? Clearly he is because they paid it.

 

[David Stern]

Yeah. Even Rudy Gay just got MAX. That brings up another question: how can Memphis be so dumb to give away Gasol for nothing to get CAP room, and then just spend it all on Gay. This just makes no sense at all.

It helped the Lakers, duh.

 

[Ben10]

I think we are in agreement here: Booz is worth 80 mil in the absolute sense, but because Jazz FO and ownership poorly managed their roster and salary spending, we are unable to keep a star PF, who was gracious enough to give us a chance to match (I didn't think he would), and are forced to lose a player of such caliber (2nd best on the team, 2 time all star, 2 time all NBA, Olympic gold medalist, 20 and 10) for absolutely nothing in return, hence jeopardizing the return of out star PG, who said he wanted talent in order to stay in 2 years. Wouldn't you say, based on what we just agreed upon, this is pretty big screw up by FO/ownership (not just this year, but over the years that leas to this)?

Yes we are in agreement for the most part here. The reason we are loosing Boozer is strictly a money thing. Which as you have stated is managements fault. Agreed. The only difference I is that in the 6 years he was here did we compete for a championship? How may games did/well he miss? (28% according to Siler). How well is he going to be playing for the last 2 years of that contract? What are our chances of keeping some of the other young players we have when there contracts come up because of his contract?

I Boozer worth that much money given what he gives on the offensive end? Yes. Is he worth that Much money to the Jazz with the way there roster is built right now (see Memo/AK) the answer is no. Because the team as it is now well not get further than it has.

How many days before extension period was over did we agree to this unfavorable 3-year deal? I recall well - well before deadline. Correct me if I am wrong. And besides, as I just said, we didn't have to agree to it at all. Let him play, then match any offer next year. But it would not come down to that. When things would get tight, Deron would sign 5 year deal. You just don't pass up 5 year MAX deal when you just came off rookie contract. What if you get serious injury (a la Livingston, Jay Williams)? It's not like you already made 100 mil. You only made a few mil on rookie deal. You can't just refuse a deal worth 85 mil when you career earnings are 5 mil. But things never got tight. Just like with AK, Jazz managed to have all the aces up their sleeves and got played at the end. And now with FO fumbling away Booz for nothing, this 3 year deal might just bite us in the *** harder than we thought.

Well lets just say that because we decide to just let him play and he gets really pissed. Playes out his rookie contract then takes the QA the next year and becomes an unrestricted FA and can just walk away. Not saying that is going to happen. But there is a thing called keeping a good working relationship. I agree that the Jazz could have done better in both of the negotiations you mentioned. And don't we wish they would have. But at the same time I find it hard to Really piss off your best player just because you want it to go your way.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I would even add a second question that goes hand in hand with this one. Which 20 - 10 guys (or 19.5/11.2 - you get the point) aged 28 years signed for deals in recent memory for less than what Booz signed for?

Yep. Especally on 56% from the floor.

People keep talking about his defense and injuries. They don't realize that if he played good defense and had no injuries he'd be a lock for the max. He'd be more highly sought after than Bosh and Amare right now.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I think a mid level exception is a fair amount different than the $4 million a year that separates Boozer from a max contract. Boozer is not worth 80 million to the Jazz, period. The front office has spoken. If you disagree with it, that's fine but ultimately you're not the one signing the checks. Do I think Boozer is worth 80 million to the Bulls? Clearly he is because they paid it.

The mid level may be less, but it is the same point. None of those players are signing for the $80 mil Boozer signed for, so those players are worth more than $80 mil.

If a player is on a max contract, then they obviously don't belong on a list of players worth $80 mil (which is $20 mil less than Amare got, $40 mil less than Joe Johnson, I don't know about Wade, Bosh, or Lebron's contracts but I'm sure they're all significantly more than Boozer's too).

 

[Ben10]

Yep. Especally on 56% from the floor.

People keep talking about his defense and injuries. They don't realize that if he played good defense and had no injuries he'd be a lock for the max. He'd be more highly sought after than Bosh and Amare right now.

And if that was the Case and Boozer did those 2 things you just mentioned the Jazz would be handing him that contract on a silver platter. Because they wouldn't have resigned Millsap and they wouldn't have extended Okur because Carlos had a horrible year (see injured) the year before.

 

[Revolution 9]

Only top tier players like Durrant, Dwill, Wade, Lebron etc should be making this type of money.

I believe Boozer is worth 10-12 million for what he gives you.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Its rather impossible to argue Booz is not worth 80 million when Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson just got max deals. If the Jazz didn't sign Milsap they would be doing everything in their power to keep Boozer. It would be nice to keep both, but no sane GM invests that much money into two players who strictly play only one and the same position.

 

[Ben10]

I agree with you Revolution. But with the market the way its been set Boozer is worth that much to the teams that were willing to give it to him. That is his market value when you look at it being the same Contract that Rudy Gay is getting for the most part.

 

[vj_74]

Only top tier players like Durrant, Dwill, Wade, Lebron etc should be making this type of money.

I believe Boozer is worth 10-12 million for what he gives you.

If you crawl out from under that rock, you will realize that "top tier players like Lebron, Wade.." make a lot more money than that. Even second tier players like Joe Johnson make a lot more money than that.

For 10-12 mil, you wont get Boozer, you will only get a worn down Okur.

 

[Borat]

Yes we are in agreement for the most part here. The reason we are loosing Boozer is strictly a money thing. Which as you have stated is managements fault. Agreed. The only difference I is that in the 6 years he was here did we compete for a championship? How may games did/well he miss? (28% according to Siler). How well is he going to be playing for the last 2 years of that contract? What are our chances of keeping some of the other young players we have when there contracts come up because of his contract?

I Boozer worth that much money given what he gives on the offensive end? Yes. Is he worth that Much money to the Jazz with the way there roster is built right now (see Memo/AK) the answer is no. Because the team as it is now well not get further than it has.

It's kind of hard to get further though when you are losing a 20 and 10 guy - and still being over the CAP, so cannot sign marquee players. Eventually trading him for a great player at different position could have been a step forward though. Just losing a guy like that for nothing in return is a step back.

Well lets just say that because we decide to just let him play and he gets really pissed. Playes out his rookie contract then takes the QA the next year and becomes an unrestricted FA and can just walk away. Not saying that is going to happen. But there is a thing called keeping a good working relationship. I agree that the Jazz could have done better in both of the negotiations you mentioned. And don't we wish they would have. But at the same time I find it hard to Really piss off your best player just because you want it to go your way.

Do you remember anyone in the history of NBA coming out of their rookie deal accepting QO over 90 mil? I honestly don't. I recall Olowokandi doing that, but that's because he was not a very good player and did not get great offers. Derron's offer was 5 years - for MAX. Sure, there was a small risk involved, but again, when you hold all the cards, you should be able to come out on top. I just don't see Deron being pissed off for long after getting 90 mil richer. I see him being pissed off and leaving in 2 years though when we give away 20 and 10 guys for nothing.

 

[The Ghost of Blue Edwards]

Yep. Especally on 56% from the floor.

People keep talking about his defense and injuries. They don't realize that if he played good defense and had no injuries he'd be a lock for the max. He'd be more highly sought after than Bosh and Amare right now.

Ok, except he doesn't play defense and he is often injured. Let's stick to reality here.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

Guess LeBron IS going to MIA

https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard

 

[SaltyDawg]

Ok, except he doesn't play defense and he is often injured. Let's stick to reality here.

I am sticking to reality. The only reason he is only getting $80 mil is because of the injuries and defense. All you guys saying "I would only pay him that if he was a perfect player" are off your rockers. If he was that perfect player, he would be getting the $120 mil Joe Johnson got (or more).