Israel-Hamas War

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Many may not know that, but then many do not know what river and what sea they are chanting about.

CFR. If you have no legitimate reference for what you are talking about, then it is imaginary.

For the record, the sources at Wikipedia indicate that it was originally a Zionist slogan adopted by the Palestinians in the 1960s:

The precise origins of the phrase are disputed.[19] According to American historian Robin D. G. Kelley, the phrase "began as a Zionist slogan signifying the boundaries of Eretz Israel."[3] Israeli-American historian Omer Bartov notes that Zionist usage of such language predates the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 and began with the Revisionist movement of Zionism led by Vladimir Jabotinski, which spoke of establishing a Jewish state in all of Palestine and had a song with the slogan: "The Jordan has two banks; this one is ours, and the other one too," suggesting a Jewish state extending even beyond the Jordan River.[20]

Kelley writes that the phrase was adopted by the Palestine Liberation Organization in the mid-1960s; the 1964 charter of the PLO's Palestinian National Council called for "the recovery of the usurped homeland in its entirety".

So, we are not talking about my bubble. We are talking about legitimate sources that you must present in detail if you want to be taken seriously at all.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

CFR. If you have no legitimate reference for what you are talking about, then it is imaginary.

For the record, the sources at Wikipedia...

Your source is Wikipedia, and even that biased source says right up front the origin is disputed. What is unquestioned is that Haj Amin al-Husseini did create that type of material during the Nazi war effort.

Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Nazis and the Holocaust: The Origins, Nature and Aftereffects of Collaboration on JSTOR

Jeffrey Herf, Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Nazis and the Holocaust: The Origins, Nature and Aftereffects of Collaboration, Jewish Political Studies Review, Vol. 26, No. 3/4 (Fall 2014), pp. 13-37

www.jstor.org

The central tenet of my point of the historical ties this current situation has to the Nazis, and which side the Palestinian Nationalists were on, is not controversial among the intellectually honest, the origin of the particular disputed quote notwithstanding.

 

[One Brow]

Your source is Wikipedia, and even that biased source says right up front the origin is disputed. What is unquestioned is that Haj Amin al-Husseini did create that type of material during the Nazi war effort.

You have back-pedaled into "that type of material".

The central tenet of my point of the historical ties this current situation has to the Nazis, and which side the Palestinian Nationalists were on, is not controversial among the intellectually honest,...

They did have several enemies in common during WWII. In the 1930s, Nazi Germany had difficult relations with the Palestinians. War makes for strange bedfellows.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

the origin of the particular disputed quote notwithstanding.

Either bring it up or don't. But if you're going to bring it up, back it up.

Since I'm not at library (and have no access to jstor), how about you do a screenshot and show us the paragraph and page number in question so that we can know exactly what you're talking about.

If you're going to insist that Nazism is the source of Hamas, and the Palestinians = Nazis, then present ironclad proof without sourcing online papers that cannot be accessed.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

If you're going to insist that Nazism is the source of Hamas, and the Palestinians = Nazis, then present ironclad proof without sourcing online papers that cannot be accessed.

Nazism isn’t the source of Hamas, and Hamas isn’t the source of the problem. Hamas took over from the PLO, who also wanted to kill Jews. The PLO took over from the All-Palestine Government who had succeeded the Arab Higher Committee. They too were in the Jew-killing business. The names and faces change but the problem is the same. The nationalist fervor and murderous anti-Semitism is the problem. Those roots are in Nazism. That is Nazism.

Prior to the Nazis coming to power in the 1930’s, the Jews and the Arabs mostly lived side by side without killing each other. There was the odd event here and there but there was nothing like what followed when the leader of the Palestinian Arabs became enamored with Nazism in the late 1930’s.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Prior to the Nazis coming to power in the 1930’s, the Jews and the Arabs mostly lived side by side without killing each other.

If you are trying to provide context for your narrative, I don't think you're going back as far as you need to.

Am I mistaken in my understanding that the Palestinians hail from Ishmael? If not, then they are just as much the blood of Abraham as any Jewish person. As are the seed of Esau.

Did God covenant with Abraham? And was part and parcel to that covenant the promise that he would father "many nations"? If so, then this is a family matter _in the covenant_.

For you or anyone to pretend that the current slaughter constitutes a legitimate "defense" which Israel has a right to is to ignore the covenant, and God, upon which you base Israel's claim of indigeneity. Israel is needlessly spilling more of Abraham's blood in response to the symptoms of their own apartheid.

As it stands, the current genocide is probably most comparable to that of Pol Pot in Cambodia in the '70s, for whom a new word was required to describe his particular brand of mass murder: Autogenocide.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Am I mistaken in my understanding that the Palestinians hail from Ishmael?

You are mistaken. I believe you have confused the origin of Palestinians with the story telling the supposed origin of Islam. Abraham and Ishmael , as the story goes, lived about 4,000 year ago. Evolution simply doesn’t work that fast and DNA evidence makes the narrative laughable, but all of that is immaterial anyway. It doesn’t matter if God spoke to Abraham or if there is a God at all. With the Palestinians, the problem isn’t Islam versus Jews, but Nazi ideology versus Jews.

Palestinians, as we use the term today, became a thing less than a hundred years ago. Prior to that, they were Arabs just like any other Arabs. When the British set up the Palestine mandate, the term Palestinian referred to anyone living in the area. It is like we use the term ‘Texan’ today to refer to anyone living in Texas.

History of the Palestinians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Arab radicals prior to Haj Amin al-Husseini, and even al-Husseini himself when he was young, were concerned with establishing pan-Arab and pan-Islam caliphates. Most Islamists today are still like that, concerned with establishing a caliphate. The change from pan-Arab to a more local Palestinian nationalism happened when Haj Amin al-Husseini became enamored with the Fascist movements gaining traction in Europe.

Although the Palestinian term wasn’t used until a bit later, that shift in ideology was the genesis of the ethnonational group we refer to today as Palestinians, and it is when the murderous anti-Semitism was dialed to 11. That ideology is still there in the Palestinian people. It is the Palestinian people who turned Hamas into what it is, not the other way around. Hamas needs to be taken out completely because they are the worst, but if the Nazi ideology among the people isn’t weeded out then whoever replaces Hamas will become the next Hamas just as Hamas became the next PLO.

If that blood and soil nationalism along with the anti-Semitic justifications resonate with you, all I can say is that if you walk like a duck and quack like a duck then don't get bent out of shape when people think you are a duck.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

It doesn’t matter if God spoke to Abraham or if there is a God at all.

I think this is the prevalent belief of most of the Zionists in question here. Which means that it is apartheid and autogenocide with no authentic justification whatsoever.

I won't group all Jewish people together under the umbrella of "Zionists", though. It is clearly a house divided against itself. Those who want to wipe out their undesirable family outcasts, and those who do not.

But for any group of Jewish people that do espouse the policies of Zionism, it would appear that there is no "Zion" hiding within them that is worth living for. Which means they have bizarrely become what they hate the most, and in the most monstrous manner imaginable.

They had best pray that you are right, and that neither God, nor his covenant with Abraham matter. Because if he does exist, then he will likely intervene on behalf of that covenant in a way that Israel will neither apprehend, nor want.

 

[George W]

CFR. If you have no legitimate reference for what you are talking about, then it is imaginary.

For the record, the sources at Wikipedia indicate that it was originally a Zionist slogan adopted by the Palestinians in the 1960s:


So, we are not talking about my bubble. We are talking about legitimate sources that you must present in detail if you want to be taken seriously at all.

don't engage him dude. Treat these racists with radio silence.

- George

 

[Al-O-Meter]

it is apartheid and autogenocide

The prefix ‘auto’ mean to do to oneself, and apartheid requires separate groups. To have an apartheid and autogenocide literally means you think the Israelis are ruling the Palestinians and the Palestinians are genociding themselves. You are putting the blame for Palestinians dying at the feet of the Palestinians themselves.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

The prefix ‘auto’ mean to do to oneself, and apartheid requires separate groups. To have an apartheid and autogenocide literally means you think the Israelis are ruling the Palestinians and the Palestinians are genociding themselves. You are putting the blame for Palestinians dying at the feet of the Palestinians themselves.

Again, the term was created in reference to Pol Pot, who wiped out the Cambodian people (his own people) who either disagreed with his fanatical brand of communism, or refused to cooperate.

Israel has the Torah, there is no need for anyone to explain the covenant of Abraham to them, or the blood of their own family. They assume Palestinians are a separate group, hence they execute apartheid as if Ishmael never existed. They forget that Hagar was in that bed at Sarah's request.

I'm not surprised you would misunderstand, seeing as how you share Israel's understanding of the word Zion, which apparently has nothing to do with any God to speak of. Except perhaps Mammon.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-CRXROorw

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0o31jBN_1Q/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

[Al-O-Meter]

They forget that Hagar was in that bed at Sarah's request. ... I'm not surprised you would misunderstand, seeing as how you share Israel's understanding of the word Zion, which apparently has nothing to do with any God to speak of. Except perhaps Mammon.

I can see you are committed to viewing current events through the lens of your religious beliefs.

In seeing the type of information in your social media feed as posted above, I have a question. The same Instagram user you seem to resonate with posted a clip calling homosexuality an “affliction” and said the only way for them to be right with God was to abstain. In your steadfast religious view, do you believe a homosexual who does not abstain from homosexuality should be thrown off buildings as is common in the Gaza Strip?

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CwsoYiXoIdU/

 

[Al-O-Meter]

don't engage him dude. Treat these racists with radio silence.

- George

With people who believe as you and Unborne Gore do, that is sage advice. It is better to stay silent and have people suspect than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

I can see you are committed to viewing current events through the lens of your religious beliefs.

Religious? That's a laugh.

Understanding what the word "Zion" means is not necessarily a religious matter. But if you don't know what that word means, how could you possibly speak to this topic with any authenticity at all?

Jacob became Israel for a reason, after all. Not just after buying a birthright with a bowl of oatmeal.

If your lens is not founded on apprehending these scriptural narratives, then why tf should anyone on planet earth ever engage with you on this matter?

The same Instagram user you seem to resonate with posted a clip calling homosexuality an “affliction"

I didn't post that clip as any kind of advertisement for Islam, or that particular poster. I posted it because it shows the humanity of the soldier, and also shows that she recognizes the humanity of her victim.

You are simply projecting your own political agenda. But the soldier? That kind of post-traumatic dehumanization is real.

This is precisely why a discussion about Abraham, his covenant, and the nations he fathered is imperative to this discussion. This is why the term "Zion" must be understood whether you are religious or not. Israeli policy is promulgated unmistakably as Zionism. To divorce the discussion from these terms is callous and ignorant.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzC9DMqIwTP/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

[Al-O-Meter]

If your lens is not founded on apprehending these scriptural narratives, then why tf should anyone on planet earth ever engage with you on this matter? ... This is precisely why a discussion about Abraham, his covenant, and the nations he fathered ...

Nazis don’t like engaging with me on this matter. I think the concept of a thing being owed to a people because of their blood is gross.

 

[Eminence]

I don't agree with AI on the Palestinian national movement having a strong tie to Nazism (I see WWI as setting the path for our current road and WWII just being another step).

I also don't vibe with Gore's focus on the importance of the religious components of Zionism. Zionism is just not different enough from any other large movement of people for me to care about the religious thinking. People moved and settled for better opportunities for them and their children, motives past that are superficial for the vast majority.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Nazis don’t like engaging with me on this matter. I think the concept of a thing being owed to a people because of their blood is gross.

Strange that you would say such a thing while supporting a regime that has become Nazi-like in its policies, and that absolutely operates as a chosen people because of their blood.