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It’s official Donovan is the GOAT

You can only have so many guys like that on a floor at a time if we want to win it all.
You say this as a negative but to me it’s why he is so great. You could have a lineup of 5 great offensive players but it wouldn’t work very well because only one of them can shoot on every possession. Rudy changes the game from the other end of the court. Not many players do that.

No one bats an eye at a great offensive player giving you no defense. But apparently the opposite isnt true?
 
You say this as a negative but to me it’s why he is so great. You could have a lineup of 5 great offensive players but it wouldn’t work very well because only one of them can shoot on every possession. Rudy changes the game from the other end of the court. Not many players do that.

No one bats an eye at a great offensive player giving you no defense. But apparently the opposite isnt true?

I guess I single Rudy out (rather than Joe or Rubio say) because I want him to be great. He walks with such swagger and there is this talk of his desire to be great like Duncan (I believe Quin referenced this years ago) and yet I still see no scoring skill.
 
You could have a lineup of 5 great offensive players but it wouldn’t work very well because only one of them can shoot on every possession.

is that not the epitome of the Warriors? (Put out lineups of 5 great offensive players regularly, and are the winners of 3 of the last 4 chips -- really should have been 4 of 4)

Only one of them can shoot per possession, but if you have a legitimate threat at every position it changes the game completely.
 
Here's the path to us freeing enough capspace for a max slot THIS year, if we want it:

It can be done. We need to dump Burks(probably with a future first rounder attached). Renounce Favors, Exum, Thabo, Jerebko, Udoh, Neto and Stockton. And we are left with:

Gobert 23.5
Mitchell 3.1
Rubio 15
Ingles 13
Crowder 7.3
Bradley 1.7
Royce 1.4
caphold for 1st round pick this year: 1.7M
-----------------------------------
66.7M

This is only 8 players and every team needs to have at least 12 slots filled, so we need to add 4 min salary cap hold slots(0.83m) or about 3.3M altogether... which puts us at:

70M!!!

... or we have a full max slot(about 31M)

Then we will have the MLE and various other exceptions to fill our roster. with other players(maybe use the second rounder as a 15th man)...

Our depth won't be great but that's the price you pay for getting a max free agent this year.

Depth chart:

PG: Rubio, Okobo?, vet with part of MLE?
SG: Mitchell, Royce, vet with some exception
SF: Ingles, Crowder, vet min exception
PF: PG13?, part of MLE?, second rounder?
C: Gobert, Bradley, vet min?

If you are working below the salary cap you don't get an MLE. You only get the MLE if you are working above the cap.
 
is that not the epitome of the Warriors? (Put out lineups of 5 great offensive players regularly, and are the winners of 3 of the last 4 chips -- really should have been 4 of 4)

Only one of them can shoot per possession, but if you have a legitimate threat at every position it changes the game completely.
Not at all. Draymond is basically all distributing and transition points. He’s there for his defense. Along with Iggy.

They only ever have two superstar scorers and the best off ball, pull-up shooter maybe ever in Klay, if Klay was a guy who needed the ball in his hands he’d be much less valuable for their team.

It is absolutely not 5 stud offensive players. It’s three, and all the dudes play solid (Curry) to great (Klay) defense too. And they stagger the minutes because having all three out there at once gets diminishing returns.

And Wes why’d you like that post? You’re not dumb. 5 great offensive players? lol that’s not what they do at all.
 
According to the webs, he was a consultant for us a year or so ago but is the asst GM of the Bucks now.
He was assistant GM for the Bucks before he came to the Jazz last year. He's still with us AFAIK. The wiki page has probably not been updated since the time he was with the Bucks 3 years ago.
 
He was assistant GM for the Bucks before he came to the Jazz last year. He's still with us AFAIK. The wiki page has probably not been updated since the time he was with the Bucks 3 years ago.

Yeah I just saw he was let go three years ago by Bucks...guess he or no one else cares about updating his Wikipedia page.
 
Not at all. Draymond is basically all distributing and transition points. He’s there for his defense. Along with Iggy.

They only ever have two superstar scorers and the best off ball, pull-up shooter maybe ever in Klay, if Klay was a guy who needed the ball in his hands he’d be much less valuable for their team.

It is absolutely not 5 stud offensive players. It’s three, and all the dudes play solid (Curry) to great (Klay) defense too. And they stagger the minutes because having all three out there at once gets diminishing returns.

And Wes why’d you like that post? You’re not dumb. 5 great offensive players? lol that’s not what they do at all.

The lineup of Steph, Klay, KD, Igg, and Dray (their death lineup of great offense):
Played the 6th most minutes in the playoffs (which is a lot considering the injuries to several of those players), they played the 3rd most minutes together in the regular season (even with injuries). You overestimate the staggering. Curry, Durant, Green and Thompson all played in 4 of 5 most used GSW lineups...

in the regular season they had ortg of 125, 110, 119, 113, & 110... and they combined for an oRtg of 124 when all playing together, which is significantly above the league average oRtg of 108.

they had a dRtg of 108, 111, 107, 109 & 105... and they combined to output a dRtg of 116 all together, which is significantly worse than the league average of 106

They are all above average offensively, and combine to be significantly worse than the league average defensively. Yet they lean on that lineup when they need it most.


Rudy has a good oRtg too, but the difference is that his oRtg is the product of his lack of usage, and dependence on put-backs or opportunistic dump offs. If other guys are shut down, game planned for, injured, etc. Rudy becomes nothing, even possibly a negative offensively. The GSW have 4 or 5 guys on the floor who can create something, even green can dribble and find open players. Rudy is limited to holding the ball for handoffs outside the paint. Inside the paint he doesn't touch the ball unless he is open under the hoop.

And that sums up the problem. The problem isn't so much that its Rudy, its that we have almost ALL of our players not being able to create ANY offense. You appear to think 4-5 great players offensively is a bad thing... so do you prefer we have 2 good offensive players and 3 bad? right now our starting five has only 3 players who rate above league average offensively, and none of them even come close to 20% usage. The guys taking our shots (Rubio, Mitchell, Hood, Exum, Burks, Crowder) are all well below league average oRtg. I think we see DMs efficiency rise, and it makes sense that it's low considering how much usg he had to bare. but the moral of the story is YOU NEED to spread shots out among good offensive players. That way one or two guys cant be isolated and game-planned for, and shut down the entire team.

Our starting lineup leaves us with one guy who can create (and inefficiently -- partly because of the lack of help); therefor we run 2 players with bad oRtgs, and 3 passable offensive guys who rarely shoot (ingles, favors, and gobert)
 
Not at all. Draymond is basically all distributing and transition points. He’s there for his defense. Along with Iggy.

They only ever have two superstar scorers and the best off ball, pull-up shooter maybe ever in Klay, if Klay was a guy who needed the ball in his hands he’d be much less valuable for their team.

It is absolutely not 5 stud offensive players. It’s three, and all the dudes play solid (Curry) to great (Klay) defense too. And they stagger the minutes because having all three out there at once gets diminishing returns.

And Wes why’d you like that post? You’re not dumb. 5 great offensive players? lol that’s not what they do at all.

Three are great, Iggy was a 20_+ point scorer for years and has taken a bench role. Sure, he's declined a bunch but he at least brings a fairly diverse and high iq offensive game to the table. Draymond may have the least scoring potential but he is an elite passer and can stretch the floor from the 4, though he stunk this year % wise.
 
Three are great, Iggy was a 20_+ point scorer for years and has taken a bench role. Sure, he's declined a bunch but he at least brings a fairly diverse and high iq offensive game to the table. Draymond may have the least scoring potential but he is an elite passer and can stretch the floor from the 4, though he stunk this year % wise.

Ingles is better offensively than either of those guys.
 
Ingles is better offensively than either of those guys.

agreed, but his usage is on the low side, which is a problem. We need our high usage players to be the good offensive guys. Right now its rubio, mitchell, burks, crowder, hood* -- all of which being below average efficiency scorers.
 
Three are great, Iggy was a 20_+ point scorer for years and has taken a bench role. Sure, he's declined a bunch but he at least brings a fairly diverse and high iq offensive game to the table. Draymond may have the least scoring potential but he is an elite passer and can stretch the floor from the 4, though he stunk this year % wise.

all 5 of those guys have above league average oRtgs... and combine to be nearly 20 above league average oRtg when playing together.
 
Here's the path to us freeing enough capspace for a max slot THIS year, if we want it:

It can be done. We need to dump Burks(probably with a future first rounder attached). Renounce Favors, Exum, Thabo, Jerebko, Udoh, Neto and Stockton. And we are left with:

Gobert 23.5
Mitchell 3.1
Rubio 15
Ingles 13
Crowder 7.3
Bradley 1.7
Royce 1.4
caphold for 1st round pick this year: 1.7M
-----------------------------------
66.7M

This is only 8 players and every team needs to have at least 12 slots filled, so we need to add 4 min salary cap hold slots(0.83m) or about 3.3M altogether... which puts us at:

70M!!!

... or we have a full max slot(about 31M)

Then we will have the MLE and various other exceptions to fill our roster. with other players(maybe use the second rounder as a 15th man)...

Our depth won't be great but that's the price you pay for getting a max free agent this year.

Depth chart:

PG: Rubio, Okobo?, vet with part of MLE?
SG: Mitchell, Royce, vet with some exception
SF: Ingles, Crowder, vet min exception
PF: PG13?, part of MLE?, second rounder?
C: Gobert, Bradley, vet min?

Teams under the cap have to renounce their MLE and other exemptions for them not to count against room. Every renounced player also has a cap hold equivalent to the rookie minimum.

Trading Burks and picks and gaining a TPE would be the most useful exemption. If they could pull that off they could probably later take on a contract to help a team get under the cap and get a first back.
 
Stupid CBA you are right it changed in 2011 but if you are under the cap you only get 4 mil in MLE and for only 2 years
I don't know anymore either. Maybe it's neither... maybe it's just the bi-annual... anyways - if we do any of those we would be severely limited in how we fill the rest of the roster.
 
I don't know anymore either. Maybe it's neither... maybe it's just the bi-annual... anyways - if we do any of those we would be severely limited in how we fill the rest of the roster.

everyone gets the biannual but the MLE is different every based on being over the cap, over the tax and under the cap. They get 4 mill but can only sign for 2 years. They sill get the bi- annual.
 
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