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Jazz acquire NAW and Juancho Hernangomez for Ingles, Hughes, and two 2nd round picks.

Jingled said:
From Andy Larsen's 'Tripple Team' article tonight about NAW
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NAW was a turnover machine in his last few games in NO. he played an average of 20mins.

vs Nuggets - 5
pistons -4
cavs -3
Celtics -1
nuggets -3

not sure how he can even get at least 6 minutes here. forest, butler, paschall are all playing well.
 
infection said:
I’m going to go ahead and post it because I think it’s an important part of the process.



This whole public tour of him reporting to a team he’ll never play for, taking media photos in jerseys, etc. There’s obviously a business side and $11M is no small beans, but I think all the emotion Joe has felt, all he’s done for the franchise and community, wanting to “be with” the team, even if not playing, being constantly in trade rumors all year… I know he understands it’s business, but with all that passion and sacrifice on the line, it’s going to be hard for him to see all he’s done over the years and feel an important part of the franchise and community and feel he’s being reduced and distilled down to “a contract.” “A liability.” And that’s going to sting, no matter how much he intellectually says the correct “it’s business” answers, and no matter how much he can go through the motions of saying “if me being traded helps the team.”

This is Joe’s way of passive-aggressively saying “**** you” to the higher ups of the organization. If we’re still trying to contend as a team, we’ve gotten rid of his space at the table. It’s like waiting in line for a ride with your buddies and one of your kids. You get to the front of the line and find out the ride only seats 5 and there’s 6 of you, so you ask your kid if they’re okay with you and your buddies going, since they’re a little kid and may not even like it, and you tell them you’ll go on it with them some time later. Not today, and not next weekend. But sometime.

Your kid’s gonna ****ing hate you. It doesn’t matter how “cool with it” they seemed when you put them on the spot.

You can argue business all you want and that’s a reality. But this is what’s happening when you peel back the “it’s just business” and get to the emotion behind it.

Everyone kept saying how “Joe’s heart is always here” and “he doesn’t want to play anywhere else” and “he’s going to stay in SLC” and “he’ll re-sign with us in the summer.” Everyone repeating how we’re not trading Joe, we’re “just trading a contract” and it’s “just a formality.” Joe knows people seeing him in another jersey feels wrong and will sting — because that’s a modicum of how he felt being tossed aside as “someone who isn’t going to play anyway.”

This is how he communicates that.
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Actually you are wrong. He’s a double agent sent up their to recruit Josh Hart and gather intel.

The nonsense about them wanting his bird rights was weird but it was definitely nonsense. I do think we offer him a min deal this offseason so he can get paid to rehab. Him coming back here has more to do with not moving his family than anything. But maybe he’s hurt enough to pass.
 
If this trade never happened and this off-season you found out that we signed NAW for $5M, would you find that to be good value? That’s what this boils down to.
 
infection said:
If this trade never happened and this off-season you found out that we signed NAW for $5M, would you find that to be good value? That’s what this boils down to.
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Would depend on his play.
 
NUMBERICA said:
*$5 million and two 2nd rounders.

No, but whatever.
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Oh yeah. Forgot that part.

We just spent two second rounders and Ingles’ locker room presence to drop $4M this year. But we added $5M next year. That’s some great math, and we should be asking what it’s going to cost us to drop salary next year, because next year our baseline cap is $2M higher, and that’s with waiving Juancho. And we only have 10 guys under contract.

Earlier in the season the media guys threw out the wet blanket of how filling the 14th roster spot with a veteran would really cost us like $9M. So we’re going to have to 1) essentially stand pat with an older roster and 2) add three more people on the roster. His $5M will have collateral damage. Would be ironic if that collateral damage was not being able to bring back Joe. “Look, we all like Joe but Ryan doesn’t run a charity and bringing in Joe would cost $10M between salary and taxes and he’s 35 coming off a major injury.”
 
For those who think NAW will be in the rotation, it's worth noting that in their first games with the Jazz, Crowder played 28 minutes, Korver played 22 and Clarkson played 21. All three guys were traded for during the season and didn't have time to learn the system or get a few practices under their belt, Quin trusted them right away. In NAW's first game he played a minute and a half of garbage time when we were up almost 20 points, in a game that we were down two rotation players (Gobert and Gay) and another likely rotation player in House.
 
New theory:

They made this trade as a setup to dumping Clarkson if they can this off-season… even though they probably already have a better prospect for that role in JB. Or maybe this is them hedging on House leaving?

I don’t know. Still trying to make sense of it. His path to minutes is rough and most likely comes at the expense of someone else that is as or more deserving.
 
Jingled said:
For those who think NAW will be in the rotation, it's worth noting that in their first games with the Jazz, Crowder played 28 minutes, Korver played 22 and Clarkson played 21. All three guys were traded for during the season and didn't have time to learn the system or get a few practices under their belt, Quin trusted them right away. In NAW's first game he played a minute and a half of garbage time when we were up almost 20 points, in a game that we were down two rotation players (Gobert and Gay) and another likely rotation player in House.
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We also had a use for those players.

Man, I was so pumped when we got Jae. What a season.
 
Jingled said:
For those who think NAW will be in the rotation, it's worth noting that in their first games with the Jazz, Crowder played 28 minutes, Korver played 22 and Clarkson played 21. All three guys were traded for during the season and didn't have time to learn the system or get a few practices under their belt, Quin trusted them right away. In NAW's first game he played a minute and a half of garbage time when we were up almost 20 points, in a game that we were down two rotation players (Gobert and Gay) and another likely rotation player in House.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't read too much into that. The game wasn't out of reach for Orlando until there were 4 mins left. No way the Jazz could risk losing to Orlando at home. Jazz also have higher expectations this year compared to when Jae Crowder or Jordan Clarkson joined the team. NAW will get a chance to practice with the team this weekend. Let's see if he starts getting minutes this week. Hernangomez shouldn't be a normal rotation player.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
New theory:

They made this trade as a setup to dumping Clarkson if they can this off-season… even though they probably already have a better prospect for that role in JB. Or maybe this is them hedging on House leaving?

I don’t know. Still trying to make sense of it. His path to minutes is rough and most likely comes at the expense of someone else that is as or more deserving.
Click to expand...

I think the Jazz believe in NAW longer term and wanted to get something for Ingles' contract while they still can. Zanik apparently really liked NAW in that 2019 draft. It's just a question of how soon he can contribute. The Jazz will probably throw him some minutes and see how he fits into this system.
 
zyzz said:
Good trade IMO. I like Hughes but I’m kinda doubting he puts it together. I remember Locke talking about how much we loved NAW in that draft, but he was too out of our reach
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That second sentence has me head scratching.
 
I've been watching some more tape of NAW. One of the main issues is that the Pels have been playing him primarily at PG when he's really a 2-guard. He shoots much better when he doesn't need to be the primary ball handler, when he can get his feet set, and when he can set up his drives with the right angles and timing. He had good numbers as a rookie, but that was when the Pels had Jrue Holiday and Lonzo Ball to share the ball-handling duties.

After the Pels traded away Jrue and then Lonzo, they started depending on NAW too much to create a lot in an offense with very little structure and mediocre talent around him. He's been forcing plays, whether that's forcing passes in the paint or taking tough contested mid-range jumpers off the dribble. He's going to look a lot better with someone else handling the PG duties, so he can play on the wing. He won't be relied upon as the primary creator or scorer. He'll also be able to lock in on defense.
 
Jingled said:
From Andy Larsen's 'Tripple Team' article tonight about NAW
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Not sure about this, TBH. He just landed, probably didn't know half his new teammates' names. I wouldn't put much on rotations this game, but going forward it might mean something.
 
infection said:
Oh yeah. Forgot that part.

We just spent two second rounders and Ingles’ locker room presence to drop $4M this year. But we added $5M next year. That’s some great math, and we should be asking what it’s going to cost us to drop salary next year, because next year our baseline cap is $2M higher, and that’s with waiving Juancho. And we only have 10 guys under contract.

Earlier in the season the media guys threw out the wet blanket of how filling the 14th roster spot with a veteran would really cost us like $9M. So we’re going to have to 1) essentially stand pat with an older roster and 2) add three more people on the roster. His $5M will have collateral damage. Would be ironic if that collateral damage was not being able to bring back Joe. “Look, we all like Joe but Ryan doesn’t run a charity and bringing in Joe would cost $10M between salary and taxes and he’s 35 coming off a major injury.”
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1- if we lose in the playoffs before the conference finals we likely move Conley or Bogey and you bet your sweet *** we will take less salary.
2- worst case they move on from Rudy.
3- it’s ironic they gave up a second (Memphis second)because that second could be signed for basically half the minimum. We can buy a pick but what if we did both… mega savings! We can also pass off that savings as young guys and everyone likes young guys.

Seeing the bind we are in next year makes me really wish we hadn’t so flawlessly executed our strategy of barely being in the tax. It takes careful planning to both miss be barely over the tax and also have no way to duck it without giving away a real player not on a minimum deal. I’d say it was a mistake but it was likely a perfect plan carried out with exactness cuz these guys are pros ya know.
 
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