What's new
By:
Filters

Jazz Offseason Plan

cowhide said:
Are you still floating around that nonsense about Rudy and DM not getting along. If the tension is so obvious why is no one talking about it. You are living in the past. They do not have to hang out and be best buddies but there is no obvious tension between the two.
Click to expand...
I don't think those issues are completely gone... it isn't obvious but I'm not sure the partnership is in a great place. It might just be frustrated comments by Rudy or dumb unrelated posts on social media from Don but this type of friction is real and has happened before.
 
Ineptimusprime said:
There may be something here. Is there anything in particular you are alluding to?
Click to expand...

Mainly just the fact that he's a HOF player and has connections around the league with current high level players, etc.

I would imagine that the new owner guy would have Wade as his main basketball advisor given the basketball knowledge and their previous relationship with each other.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't think those issues are completely gone... it isn't obvious but I'm not sure the partnership is in a great place. It might just be frustrated comments by Rudy or dumb unrelated posts on social media from Don but this type of friction is real and has happened before.
Click to expand...
It is real because social media and the media have blown it out of portion to what the reality of the situation really is. Any time there is frustration people start going back to the narrative that DM and Rudy have an issue. Again players are going to have issues but both guys have said they talked and are focused on winning a championship. They are not a couple like some people make it out to be. Jazz are losing because DM is about 50 percent and Conley hasn't played beside the fact that the Clippers are really good. This "friction" narrative has nothing to do with it. Royce and Rudy got into a couple games ago. Maybe they have problems too. It just gets old hearing Jazz fans rehash a "story" that happened last year.
 
Trading Gobert makes no sense. He is what makes the Jazz uniquely special.

Mitchell is an amazing guard, but so is Steph, Klay, Dame, Luka, Booker, Trey, Fox, Irving, Harden, LaMelo, Beal, Murray, Gilgeous-Alexander, and Morant. Don is better than some of those, worse than others, but not unique. I love him, glad he is on our team and think he is essential to winning, but not by himself. Ask Dame about that.

There are very few players that actually change the game like Rudy. The problem here is not Gobert, it is that the Jazz failed to put the right players around him. Gobert and O’Neale are the only above average defensive players in the rotation and that was good enough to be a top 3 defense in the league. That is insane! The Lakers and 76ers were the other top defensive teams. Think of how many above-average defenders each of those teams have.

Gobert has not been exposed in the playoffs, his teammates have. The fact is there isn’t a secondary rebounder or rim protector, and no one can stay in front of their man on the perimeter. Gobert looks exposed at times only because he is guarding the entire court. He could easily hang out in the corner and guard Batum or Mann, but he doesn’t have that luxury because no one else on the floor can help guard the paint.

Imagine Gobert playing with 2 or 3 other above average defenders who were not liabilities on offense and a point guard that could consistently deliver the him the ball on offense.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
I say trade Rudy and build around Donovan. Rudy has been exposed and small ball is now the way to go. If Rudy could stop creating and causing so many turnovers, we would've won this series by now. But he is just so inept offensively that he hurts the team and stops momentum. The question is what can we get for Rudy.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean? I’ve seen it written a few times and I wonder what it actually means? The rockets “built around harden” end still couldn’t sniff the title. Do we think we can build a better small ball system and roster than the rockets had with cp3, Harden, and Deantoni?
 
Last edited:
The Thriller said:
What does this even mean? I’ve seen it written a few times and I wonder what it actually means? The rockets “built around harden” end still couldn’t sniff the title. Do we think we can build a better system and roster than the rockets had with cp3, Harden, and Deantoni?
Click to expand...
Makes you realize how difficult it is to win a title. Just about everything needs to go right unless you have a super team / generational talent like a Duncam, Kobe, Lebron, or Curry.

The stars aligned for the raptors a few years ago. Do people really think they beat a warriors team with a healthy Durant and Klay? No chance
 
Ujfanatic said:
Trading Gobert makes no sense. He is what makes the Jazz uniquely special.

Mitchell is an amazing guard, but so is Steph, Klay, Dame, Luka, Booker, Trey, Fox, Irving, Harden, LaMelo, Beal, Murray, Gilgeous-Alexander, and Morant. Don is better than some of those, worse than others, but not unique. I love him, glad he is on our team and think he is essential to winning, but not by himself. Ask Dame about that.

There are very few players that actually change the game like Rudy. The problem here is not Gobert, it is that the Jazz failed to put the right players around him. Gobert and O’Neale are the only above average defensive players in the rotation and that was good enough to be a top 3 defense in the league. That is insane! The Lakers and 76ers were the other top defensive teams. Think of how many above-average defenders each of those teams have.

Gobert has not been exposed in the playoffs, his teammates have. The fact is there isn’t a secondary rebounder or rim protector, and no one can stay in front of their man on the perimeter. Gobert looks exposed at times only because he is guarding the entire court. He could easily hang out in the corner and guard Batum or Mann, but he doesn’t have that luxury because no one else on the floor can help guard the paint.

Imagine Gobert playing with 2 or 3 other above average defenders who were not liabilities on offense and a point guard that could consistently deliver the him the ball on offense.
Click to expand...
When was the last time you saw a team win a title built around a center who can't make his own offense? Never.

The truth of the matter is - you don't build around offensively limited centers. In many ways, you don't build around centers at all. It doesn't lead to titles anymore. Outside of Shaq, Tim Duncan (who was a center), Kareem and Hakeem, there hasn't been a team built around a center which has won a title in the last 40 years.

If you think Rudy is in the same zip code as those guys....

And who says Don isn't a generational talent? He has accomplished more in his 1st 4 years than almost any player in NBA history. Go look it up. What he has accomplished to this point is staggering.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Ujfanatic said:
Trading Gobert makes no sense. He is what makes the Jazz uniquely special.

Mitchell is an amazing guard, but so is Steph, Klay, Dame, Luka, Booker, Trey, Fox, Irving, Harden, LaMelo, Beal, Murray, Gilgeous-Alexander, and Morant. Don is better than some of those, worse than others, but not unique. I love him, glad he is on our team and think he is essential to winning, but not by himself. Ask Dame about that.

There are very few players that actually change the game like Rudy. The problem here is not Gobert, it is that the Jazz failed to put the right players around him. Gobert and O’Neale are the only above average defensive players in the rotation and that was good enough to be a top 3 defense in the league. That is insane! The Lakers and 76ers were the other top defensive teams. Think of how many above-average defenders each of those teams have.

Gobert has not been exposed in the playoffs, his teammates have. The fact is there isn’t a secondary rebounder or rim protector, and no one can stay in front of their man on the perimeter. Gobert looks exposed at times only because he is guarding the entire court. He could easily hang out in the corner and guard Batum or Mann, but he doesn’t have that luxury because no one else on the floor can help guard the paint.

Imagine Gobert playing with 2 or 3 other above average defenders who were not liabilities on offense and a point guard that could consistently deliver the him the ball on offense.
Click to expand...
Helluva post.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
jom2003 said:
Let's make sure we have the right personnel within the FO before going into any real plan for this offseason.
Click to expand...
Let's actually be removed from the playoffs before we have a plan for the offseason. Coming back from 3-2 isn't that unusual.
 
Ujfanatic said:
Trading Gobert makes no sense. He is what makes the Jazz uniquely special.

Mitchell is an amazing guard, but so is Steph, Klay, Dame, Luka, Booker, Trey, Fox, Irving, Harden, LaMelo, Beal, Murray, Gilgeous-Alexander, and Morant. Don is better than some of those, worse than others, but not unique. I love him, glad he is on our team and think he is essential to winning, but not by himself. Ask Dame about that.

There are very few players that actually change the game like Rudy. The problem here is not Gobert, it is that the Jazz failed to put the right players around him. Gobert and O’Neale are the only above average defensive players in the rotation and that was good enough to be a top 3 defense in the league. That is insane! The Lakers and 76ers were the other top defensive teams. Think of how many above-average defenders each of those teams have.

Gobert has not been exposed in the playoffs, his teammates have. The fact is there isn’t a secondary rebounder or rim protector, and no one can stay in front of their man on the perimeter. Gobert looks exposed at times only because he is guarding the entire court. He could easily hang out in the corner and guard Batum or Mann, but he doesn’t have that luxury because no one else on the floor can help guard the paint.

Imagine Gobert playing with 2 or 3 other above average defenders who were not liabilities on offense and a point guard that could consistently deliver the him the ball on offense.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying we should trade Rudy but here's the deal... the further you get in the playoffs the more star players limitations become an issue. We see it with Giannis, Ben Simmons, and Rudy is not immune here. We can't always look at him not being his best and say its his teammates.

Why have we surrounded Rudy with such offense heavy guys? Because that is what it takes to make this team an offensive juggernaut while playing an effective, yet extremely limited offensive player. Finding a guy that shoots like Bojan but is also a really good defender is like super hard to do... you are talking about a Paul George light type of player. Finding a 4 that shoots and provides rim protection? Good ****ing luck... Denver been looking for that dude for a while.

So if you imagine Rudy with those type of defenders also imagine the other side of the ball and having guys like Covington or Tucker instead of Bojan. Are we still a top 3-5 offense?

I love Rudy... he's great... if we trade him we get worse... but lets please not put his limitations as problems with the other guys. Limitations get a microscope the further you go in the playoffs... those limitations are Rudy's and the rest of the guys to carry. Can you build a contender with those limitations? I think so... but its hard to find the right mix of player and we now have some roster flexibility issues.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'm not saying we should trade Rudy but here's the deal... the further you get in the playoffs the more star players limitations become an issue. We see it with Giannis, Ben Simmons, and Rudy is not immune here. We can't always look at him not being his best and say its his teammates.

Why have we surrounded Rudy with such offense heavy guys? Because that is what it takes to make this team an offensive juggernaut while playing an effective, yet extremely limited offensive player. Finding a guy that shoots like Bojan but is also a really good defender is like super hard to do... you are talking about a Paul George light type of player. Finding a 4 that shoots and provides rim protection? Good ****ing luck... Denver been looking for that dude for a while.

So if you imagine Rudy with those type of defenders also imagine the other side of the ball and having guys like Covington or Tucker instead of Bojan. Are we still a top 3-5 offense?

I love Rudy... he's great... if we trade him we get worse... but lets please not put his limitations as problems with the other guys. Limitations get a microscope the further you go in the playoffs... those limitations are Rudy's and the rest of the guys to carry. Can you build a contender with those limitations? I think so... but its hard to find the right mix of player and we now have some roster flexibility issues.
Click to expand...
Great post.

We are more relevant because of Rudy positioning us well after the regular season, but Rudy can't lead us to a title without an ton of very specified help that we can't afford.

If we don't win this series and if Conley leaves or demands too much money, we have to consider a 3 year plan which begins with a Rudy trade. Rudy without Mike doesn't work in the postseason.
 
LoPo said:
If we don't win this series and if Conley leaves or demands too much money, we have to consider a 3 year plan which begins with a Rudy trade. Rudy without Mike doesn't work in the postseason.
Click to expand...
Pump the brakes, dude. Jazz without Rudy probably don't make the playoffs, and that's not going to help the Donovan situation a damn bit.

I'm not absolutely married to keeping Gobert, but they have to find the right trade and that isn't going to be easy since his value elsewhere is almost certainly not as high as it is here.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Pump the brakes, dude. Jazz without Rudy probably don't make the playoffs, and that's not going to help the Donovan situation a damn bit.

I'm not absolutely married to keeping Gobert, but they have to find the right trade and that isn't going to be easy since his value elsewhere is almost certainly not as high as it is here.
Click to expand...
that's the challenge imo... you won't get 100% current value... you ideally get 75-80% current value in a guy that is a little younger and a lotto scratcher that you might hit big on... so a young player that could blow up or a first/future first with big potential.

I don't think that we'd get what we need but I also didn't think Orlando would get half the **** they did for Vucevic. It would almost certainly have to be a three team deal because teams don't trade one good player for another good player very often.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top