Jazz Offseason Plan

[Elizah Huge]

Jazz would be a bottom ten team on defense if you trade Rudy for Capella. They'd probably drop offensively as well, but still be top 10. Making the playoffs would be possible, but far from a guarantee

Thank you captain obvious. You missed the part where you get wing defenders with Capela. Why would we trade Rudy for Capela straight across?

 

[Jazzbot]

One point I would make with a lot of the discussion here, I would say, if Donovan wanted to go get “tampered” with and wasn’t committed to the Jazz, at least next season, he likely would have opted to play in the Olympics. I’m sure he did not want to turn that offer down, and he did, to let his ankle heal, and to be ready for next season. Do I think Donovan is trying to exert his power and influence over the Jazz? I do. Do I think he may leave? I do, I would just really like to see that be after a 3rd contract/6-7 years from now when he will have given it a real push to win a title here and not leave too soon so he gets the accolades of a retired jersey and things like that here that he deserves, but probably won’t get if he doesn’t spend around 10 years of his career here. I just think there is some commitment to the Jazz by turning down that Olympics invite and giving that up so he’s ready for next season. He could have played with the greatest NBA players out there and won a gold metal, and he turned it down. I think his ankle is hurt for sure, but I think he could have gutted through it like he did with the Jazz as well. I honestly and selfishly wish Joe, Rudy, etc. weren’t playing. I’m glad Bogey was eliminated already from competing in them.

 

[fishonjazz]

That was now multiple offseasons ago, but I’ve not criticized the Conley deal. I hope he stays, but even if he doesn’t, we still won that trade unless the Grizzlies pick next year turns into an All-Star.

It really wasn’t much of a risk. We got an All-Star level player for two late firsts and a couple rotation level players. Even if he leaves, the downside risk wasn’t that great at the time and isn’t much now. We’ll just pivot and move things around and still be a non-contending playoff team. If he stays, we might contend if we can surround him, Don, and Rudy with the right dudes.

It was a pretty safe trade because we likely didn’t give up much of anything of actual value.

I don’t see a Bogey, Ingles, or Clarkson trade being that risky of a move either, because I don’t think moving any one of those guys individually is going to impact winning much (especially Bogey) if we return the Don/Rudy/Mike core.

I thought you said "try something new" not take big risks.
Conley was trying something new.
In fact in just an off season or two we completely revamped our roster and changed our identity. We were amazing defensively a few years ago. And making the playoffs with potential to improve without making moves.
But instead of just standing pat and seeing where that would go they went in a completely different direction.


Kinda risky and something new really.

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[Douchebag K]

I saw it often. Maybe because it was something I was looking for. Not knocking Conley, because I think he did have overall have good PNR chemistry with Rudy. But way too many badly placed passes to someone that isn't built to go below his knees to catch.

"overall good PNR" chemistry ?? lol they had one of the very best productive partnerships in all of basketball

 

[LoPo]

I saw it often. Maybe because it was something I was looking for. Not knocking Conley, because I think he did have overall have good PNR chemistry with Rudy. But way too many badly placed passes to someone that isn't built to go below his knees to catch.

How dare you say something bad about Conley?

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[LoPo]

Keep parroting stupid talking points lmfao

Teams don't win titles built around defensive centers who have little offensive ability. This is a known fact Cy. The fact you are arguing with me over this just shows you will argue with me about anything.

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[Avery]

Surprised that nobody’s plan yet is to simply get some of the guys from the new Space Jam movie infesting theaters next week.

 

[LoPo]

"overall good PNR" chemistry ?? lol they had one of the very best productive partnerships in all of basketball

Conley and Rudy were good for each other on the offensive end. They work well together.

If Conley leaves though, Rudy loses that and becomes less effective. That's the whole thought process I'm using about trading Rudy if Conley leaves.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

Thank you captain obvious. You missed the part where you get wing defenders with Capela. Why would we trade Rudy for Capela straight across?

I get what you're saying. I just don't think Rudy is going to return as much value necessary to offset his loss. It's not that hard to get good defenders for cheap.

I think this past year the Jazz tried to optimize offense in a big way and it worked. The good news is that Donovan has actually become a pretty efficient volume scorer, and hopefully will continue to improve. I think we can sacrifice offense around him (one of Clarkson/Bogey) to optimize the defense a bit more now with his offensive development.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Teams don't win titles built around defensive centers who have little offensive ability. This is a known fact Cy. The fact you are arguing with me over this just shows you will argue with me about anything.

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Ok, teams dont win titles built around 6'1 scoring guards either....

Like I said, if your logic is to take the most historically successful build models, the Jazz are ****ed either way and should just trade everything to tank and be in line to draft the super talented 6'8+ types who are basically only available at the top of drafts.

That isnt feasible though unless you want to go Sixers Process style, which I personally don't want to do. You build around what you have.

And the Jazz could have easily won the championship this year if it wasnt for a hamstring injury to Conley and an ankle injury to Mitchell. Your critique is pretty hollow in my eyes when the Jazz put together a great roster capable of winning it all. The Jazz need to improve their moves on the margins to increase Quin's ability to make playoff adjustments and keep guys healthy through some kind of load management system. They don't need huge sweeping changes.

 

[LoPo]

I get what you're saying. I just don't think Rudy is going to return as much value necessary to offset his loss. It's not that hard to get good defenders for cheap.

I think this past year the Jazz tried to optimize offense in a big way and it worked. The good news is that Donovan has actually become a pretty efficient volume scorer, and hopefully will continue to improve. I think we can sacrifice offense around him (one of Clarkson/Bogey) to optimize the defense a bit more now with his offensive development.

If Conley stays, I agree with Cy 100% on this one. Use Bojan or Clarkson to address our weak perimeter defense then run it back. Hopefully we get a useful player out of the draft too.

 

[NAOS]

But my actual thoughts are thinking like this is stupid as hell. You play to win with the cards your dealt. The Jazz likely can't improve by trading Gobert. Their best bet is optimizing around Mitchell/Gobert/Conley. That means getting better defenders to cover for Mitchell's lack of defensive impact. Getting a more versatile roster to make adjustments with on the margins in playoff series

Shoutout to also needing to cover for Conley’s prolonged absences as well.

 

[LoPo]

Ok, teams dont win titles built around 6'1 scoring guards either....

Like I said, if your logic is to take the most historically successful build models, the Jazz are ****ed either way and should just trade everything to tank and be in line to draft the super talented 6'8+ types who are basically only available at the top of drafts.

That isnt feasible though unless you want to go Sixers Process style, which I personally don't want to do. You build around what you have.

And the Jazz could have easily won the championship this year if it wasnt for a hamstring injury to Conley and an ankle injury to Mitchell. Your critique is pretty hollow in my eyes when the Jazz put together a great roster capable of winning it all. The Jazz need to improve their moves on the margins to increase Quin's ability to make playoff adjustments and keep guys healthy through some kind of load management system. They don't need huge sweeping changes.

I used to agree with your assessment here and make the exact same argument when we had Deron. Small guys don't take teams to titles. But I think that narrative has changed a little bit. Since Isiah, Curry has been successful. Kyrie was a major part of a title. Billups was key for Detroit. Tony Parker for San Antonio. Chris Paul is currently leading the Suns pretty well. We could argue all day about Don vs those guys, but without a doubt Don is a better player than any of them through the first 4 years of their careers (CP3 vs Don would be a fun debate).

The big man thing is just a fact. Defensive minded centers with limited offensive abilities don't lead teams to titles. Just doesn't happen. We might have to go back to the days of Bill Russell to see a team win a title with a defensive center who was a top 1, 2 or 3 option on the team. All of the guys like Mutombo, Dwight, Eaton and defensive specialist limited offense guys. Now if Rudy were to take more of a Ben Wallace role, we might have a chance. Just seems that Rudy wants to be more involved and he's definitely better compensated. And Ben Wallace was an absolute unicorn freak.

We can win a title with Rudy getting paid like he is, but we need another good perimeter defender and 100% health. And maybe some 2021 Suns' style luck too.

 

[416Klawzz]

Conley is fools gold

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I used to agree with your assessment here and make the exact same argument when we had Deron. Small guys don't take teams to titles. But I think that narrative has changed a little bit. Since Isiah, Curry has been successful. Kyrie was a major part of a title. Billups was key for Detroit. Tony Parker for San Antonio. Chris Paul is currently leading the Suns pretty well. We could argue all day about Don vs those guys, but without a doubt Don is a better player than any of them through the first 4 years of their careers (CP3 vs Don would be a fun debate).

The big man thing is just a fact. Defensive minded centers with limited offensive abilities don't lead teams to titles. Just doesn't happen. We might have to go back to the days of Bill Russell to see a team win a title with a defensive center who was a top 1, 2 or 3 option on the team. All of the guys like Mutombo, Dwight, Eaton and defensive specialist limited offense guys. Now if Rudy were to take more of a Ben Wallace role, we might have a chance. Just seems that Rudy wants to be more involved and he's definitely better compensated. And Ben Wallace was an absolute unicorn freak.

We can win a title with Rudy getting paid like he is, but we need another good perimeter defender and 100% health. And maybe some 2021 Suns' style luck too.

Yeah, only one of the dudes is a small scoring guard (Curry) and he only won 1 before getting Durant. It's the same **** you parrot. It's an extremely small sample of teams winning with their leading scorer being a 6'1 scoring guard.

 

[LoPo]

Yeah, only one of the dudes is a small scoring guard (Curry) and he only won 1 before getting Durant. It's the same **** you parrot. It's an extremely small sample of teams winning with their leading scorer being a 6'1 scoring guard.

Parrot? Man, I try to be kind with you, but that chip on your shoulder is massive. Relax buddy.

Look at the NBA right now. Here are the guys who lead their teams and they are the most realistic title contenders when their teams are healthy.
Giannis
Durant
Curry *
Dame *
Don *
Paul *
Trae *
Doncic
LeBron
Jokic
Kawhi
Embiid

Can you think of any other time in the history of the NBA when you could say that almost half of the contenders in the NBA are led by guards under 6'2"? The NBA has changed. Size is important, but not as crucial as in the past especially when it comes to a team's best player.

Now go look at all of those teams and tell me who pays their center more than $15 million a year:
Jokic (superstar)
Embiid (superstar)
Rudy
Capella (only $17)
Porzingis (overpaid and holding Doncic back)

And my point still stands - teams don't win titles built when their defensive center is one of the most important players on both sides of the court. We could change that narrative, but we need a **** ton of luck and health.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

Tony Jones’ offseason plan from his ESPN700 interview with Checketts:

(1) re-sign Conley;
(2) draft JT Thor;
(3) sign Nic Batum with mini-MLE;
(4) sign Jeff Teague with a minimum;
(5) sign Trevor Ariza with a minimum.

Love the draft pick. I am mostly okay with most of those moves if we are also flipping Bojan for some defense. Don’t know why we need Bogey’s shooting if Batum, Teague, and Ariza are coming.

 

[Bodhi]

Tony Jones’ offseason plan from his ESPN700 interview with Checketts:

(1) re-sign Conley;
(2) draft JT Thor;
(3) sign Nic Batum with mini-MLE;
(4) sign Jeff Teague with a minimum;
(5) sign Trevor Ariza with a minimum.

Love the draft pick. I am mostly okay with most of those moves if we are also flipping Bojan for some defense.

I actually would love all this with the caveat that if my wettest dream comes through and we draft Thor, that Quin actually gives him the 12+ mins a night to develop.

But I don’t think either are happening…

 

[Mongoose]

That’s funny because he’s missed 10+ games in each of the last 3 seasons.

The Bucks also gave up 3 first round picks and two future first round pick swaps for Holiday.

We got Conley for crumbs compared to that terrible deal.

Conley has missed 10+ games for the last 7 years and in all but 4 seasons he's played- what's your point? Do you wanna talk about playoff availability with Conley?

 

[Mongoose]

Tony Jones’ offseason plan from his ESPN700 interview with Checketts:

(1) re-sign Conley;
(2) draft JT Thor;
(3) sign Nic Batum with mini-MLE;
(4) sign Jeff Teague with a minimum;
(5) sign Trevor Ariza with a minimum.

Love the draft pick. I am mostly okay with most of those moves if we are also flipping Bojan for some defense. Don’t know why we need Bogey’s shooting if Batum, Teague, and Ariza are coming.

Good lord- why does Ariza feel like he's 45 years old? I'm okay with some veterans, but I think these moves would make the Jazz the oldest team in the league. I'm not sure how I feel about that.