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Jazz vs. Mavs in round one

LifeOnaPlate said:
It frustrated me when Quin was asked during postgame after the PHX debacle is there was a psychological component to the meltdowns and Quin basically shrugged that theory off. I don't know if he was being protective or coy or if he really doesn't think it's a factor, but it seemed like he was unwilling to even entertain that possibility. I wish they took the approach of "well, maybe it is psychological. If that's the case, what should we do to address it?" Instead, they seem to say "nah, can't be that" and move along to another meltdown.
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Meh....I don't really know what fans are expecting here. I know why the question is asked and why fans want to hear the answer. Of course Quin knows it's an issue. Everyone knows there an issue. It does his team no favors to publicly announce that he thinks his team is mentally broken. I don't know what can be done to fix it, but addressing it to the media certainly isn't it. The only thing answering that question does is make fans feel validated in their frustrations, but he's trying to win basketball games.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
In one game anything can happen. I’m terrified of a Dinwiddie, Kleber, or DFS/Bertans having the game of their playoff life and we end up losing and never recovering. This team gets punched and just stays down. We shall see I’m hoping to be wrong and they can find some testicular fortitude and basketball connectedness
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Their crowd will no doubt be amped up, we just need to put on our big boy pants and execute.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If Phoenix is healthy I think they may straight dismember us.

I agree that we likely choose between the scenarios mentioned... I do think we should keep our hand on the nuclear button though if it doesn't work.

I think we win the series unless Luka is more healthy than we guess. I won't be surprised if we lose though and as we know injury luck can quickly reverse.
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Agree on the first point, and it follows that Gobert is likely to be traded which is unfortunate. Our performance will dictate whether or Rudy is on this team next year and that's the inflection point. Don't think tanking/nuclear option is even a consideration. Even in the scenario where Mitchell himself demands out, I think we're unlikely to trade Rudy. Nothing is on the line as far as tanking. What's on the line is if we're rolling out with Gobert or Capela + Collins (something along those lines) instead.

I think the supporting pieces (Conley, Bogey, Clarkson, O'Neale) are all up in the air no matter what happens. Same with Quin. Whether we keep or trade Rudy, I think we still shuffle around those pieces and target similar players in both scenarios.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Looks like Luka is out for game one. I'm not sure why they didn't wait until the last minute to announce this?
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I thought it was shams that announced it, not the mavs. They have to report it by tomorrow afternoon from what I understand.
 
KqWIN said:
Agree on the first point, and it follows that Gobert is likely to be traded which is unfortunate. Our performance will dictate whether or Rudy is on this team next year and that's the inflection point. Don't think tanking/nuclear option is even a consideration. Even in the scenario where Mitchell himself demands out, I think we're unlikely to trade Rudy. Nothing is on the line as far as tanking. What's on the line is if we're rolling out with Gobert or Capela + Collins (something along those lines) instead.

I think the supporting pieces (Conley, Bogey, Clarkson, O'Neale) are all up in the air no matter what happens. Same with Quin. Whether we keep or trade Rudy, I think we still shuffle around those pieces and target similar players in both scenarios.
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Only scenario I see a tank is you realize you are going to split those guys and swap out the supporting cast... and you get a really good future facing offers on guys and the win now offers are really underwhelming... there is also a scenario where Donovan asks out and Rudy is sick of the organization and wants out too. I think there is like a 3%-ish chance where something like that happens. Like maybe the Knicks land top 4 and put together some monster offer and you decide to move Donovan (and in that case maybe they roll with Rudy). The good thing to the rumors is that it will make teams call and check in so you can gauge what is out there.

Its more likely a Quin change and some Mike/Bogey deal... Still a chance the offers for Rudy aren't as great as we want and they just keep them together. I think we've likely kicked a lot of the tires on those guys for the different pieces we'd like... and likely not had success finding a taker.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
If Phoenix is healthy I think they may straight dismember us.

I agree that we likely choose between the scenarios mentioned... I do think we should keep our hand on the nuclear button though if it doesn't work.

I think we win the series unless Luka is more healthy than we guess. I won't be surprised if we lose though and as we know injury luck can quickly reverse.
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I still look forward to playing phoenix. Rudy gets to kick it in the paint all series at least.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
You think we've had the same team since 2017?
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I think it doesn't matter what team Utah puts on the court, it's clear this franchise has a very consistent norm - at least the last 22 years.

It's not a coincidence the Jazz have only advanced to the Conference Finals once since the 1999 season.

Anyone who thinks Utah is better than their seed is just huffing the copium at this point and not grounded in any reality.

Last year's team was the anomaly and it not only proved itself with their humiliating exit in the playoffs to a shorthanded Clippers team (that made up for Utah's injuries too) but they've pretty much proven it this year with their inconsistent play (that goes well beyond just January).

This Jazz team is set for yet another playoff exit before even making it to the Conference Finals. The only two franchises who have a longer WCF drought (15 years now since the Jazz last made it) than the Jazz are New Orleans and Minnesota and it would not shock me if either made it there before the Jazz because again, what we're experiencing right now is the norm for this franchise. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just making excuses and trying to talk themselves into believing this team is somehow deserving of being counted among the top based on a finish last year that still failed to net the franchise more than two wins in the semifinals (outside that Golden State series where the Jazz advanced to the WCF last, Utah hasn't won more than two games in a semifinals series since beating the Spurs... in 1998). How anyone can look at that remarkable consistency from this franchises and determine they're somehow better than their seed is just plain irrational fandom.

If Utah is better than their seed, they're better by just one. But there is no way this team is on the same level as the top-three and I'm confident we'll see this play out over the course of the next few weeks, either with Utah losing to Dallas or beating a shorthanded Mavs team and then losing 4-2 to Phoenix in the semifinals. Same as it ever was.

If I'm wrong I'll concede it. But if Utah gets by Dallas, I'll be shocked if they win more than two games against the Suns because I've seen this playoff play out pretty much every year I've been a Jazz fan. You have too. You just hope against hope that somehow this is the year the Jazz is better than their seeding.

Yeah and I've told myself that many years before, just to see them go out early.
 
LoPo said:
Self-awareness is caving to the opinions of others? I admit when I'm wrong all the time. That's self-awareness in my book. I don't see other people who are sometimes wrong ever say it.

Back to the point at hand - Donovan Mitchell was our star for the OKC series. He "led" us to that unprecedented, unanticipated series win. That doesn't mean he did it on his own because nobody does anything on their own. That doesn't mean others didn't play well. It's just a fact - Don was our guy that series.

I don't know why some people argue just to argue sometimes. I'm guilty of it too every once in a while, but it would be nice for people to just nod and move along. They seem incapable.
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Self-awareness is stepping back and realizing that he hasn't engaged you on the point you're arguing with him about at all. You're essentially having an argument with yourself. That's very un-self aware.

You think because people don't agree with you completely that they disagree with you completely and you're imagining that they are essentially saying things that they are not saying. That's lack of self awareness.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Only scenario I see a tank is you realize you are going to split those guys and swap out the supporting cast... and you get a really good future facing offers on guys and the win now offers are really underwhelming... there is also a scenario where Donovan asks out and Rudy is sick of the organization and wants out too. I think there is like a 3%-ish chance where something like that happens. Like maybe the Knicks land top 4 and put together some monster offer and you decide to move Donovan (and in that case maybe they roll with Rudy). The good thing to the rumors is that it will make teams call and check in so you can gauge what is out there.

Its more likely a Quin change and some Mike/Bogey deal... Still a chance the offers for Rudy aren't as great as we want and they just keep them together. I think we've likely kicked a lot of the tires on those guys for the different pieces we'd like... and likely not had success finding a taker.
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I think there's maybe a 5-10% chance Don asks out. But in that even, I also only see a 5-10% chance of Rudy asking out as well. I think it would be extremely likely that Rudy would like to stay and prove himself. But in my most generous estimates, that's still only a 1% chance of both happening. The nuclear option isn't really an option IMO...and that has nothing to do with whether or not it's a good idea, it's just extremely unlikely to happen.

They may have kicked the tires on moving those guys, but I refuse to believe that they didn't find moves that would have been beneficial to this team. I mean...just looking at the moves that happened, it's hard to believe the Jazz couldn't have found a way to beat those offers. I don't believe that they couldn't find a good deal. They just opted to play it safe and/or misevaluated greatly. Even here on this forum there was plenty of hesitation to move those guys despite our glaring flaws. After (likely) three years of playoff embarrassment, it's time to acknowledge that defense exists. I don't think highly of this FO, but they will do better than Oni or Gay when addressing this problem in the future.
 
Gameface said:
Self-awareness is stepping back and realizing that he hasn't engaged you on the point you're arguing with him about at all. You're essentially having an argument with yourself. That's very un-self aware.

You think because people don't agree with you completely that they disagree with you completely and you're imagining that they are essentially saying things that they are not saying. That's lack of self awareness.
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Well said.

To be more specific, he couldn't even identify that my post he responded to was a parody of him because he didn't address the criticism contained in it (when he can't refute a point he dislikes, he deflects with whataboutism or goes back to his tired and trounced points about how objective he is and that he doesn't speak ill of our players despite being THE LOUDEST Gobert hater on the board of all time. He can dress up the language however he likes but virtually everyone sees through it.).
 
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