Kemba Walker vs Brandon Knight

[Guitaro]

I picked Knight, but I do wonder. I know he hasn't played a single pro game yet, but Kemba reminds me quite a bit of a shorter DWade in his style of play. Both are physical, beat people from the perimeter on athleticism and determination rather than size, and can distribute but prefer to score. I just really worry about the fact that he is roughly 4 inches shorter.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I do like Kemba better, but my only serious concern is if Kemba will let the size thing get to him. I don't think he'll back down from the challenge, I just think it may be a bit of an adjustment. He'll need to improve his FG% from the outside, that's for sure. Chris Paul had the same issue. He's done pretty well in that department, same with Wade.

But whoever we pick, just think about the real reason we're picking any of these guys: What kind of PGs/players do well in the playoffs? Look at the teams that are still winning. What do they have? They have fearlessness and focus. Who do you see in this draft that's fearless and super focused? Chicago was until they ran into someone with more. OKC has been alright in that department but they've been winning with talent mostly. Durant and a few others have had it from time to time. Dallas, to me, is the most driven (focused) and fearless. Miami has more power and speed and I do think Lebron is probably the most driven player in this playoffs. Dirk is a very close second. It's going to be interesting to see if Dallas' depth will be the determining factor? Will Lebron and Wade finally run out of gas? Will Bosh pick them up if they do?

Long story long, there's a few players, outside of Kemba, that I think have no fear and have plenty of focus. Jimmer is one of those. No surprise? The rest, I haven't seen them enough times to know for sure. Although, if you're not sure, then just look at how hard they play. Do they play hard all the time, including practice? Gym rat? Gym rats just love to play. Some are always competitive: Jordan, Stockton, Kobe, Malone, Deron, Paul, Wade, plus others. From what I've read, Kemba is like that. If I were the Jazz, I'd follow up on that and see just how competitive any of the prospect they like are in practice.

 

[Guitaro]

Knight. He has the length, athleticism and intelligence to be a Russell Westbrook type player with more range and consistency and less of a tendency to chuck.

I'll say this, if we do end up picking Knight, I think you'll need to have another strong personality at another position then. Is Gordon that guy? Do we go ahead and trade up and get Derrick Williams then and pick Knight a bit later? For example, if we someone get #2 and still keep #3 or trade down and have #2 and say #5? If you don't get Kemba, then I'd go Derrick Williams as your guy who draws attention and then Knight at #5.

Of course, noone knows for sure what kind of trades the Jazz are cooking up. It all depends on where they pick and who the Jazz are willing to give up in return? I'm guessing there will be at least one trade, maybe a multi-team trade before it's all said and done. In other words, all this talk between Knight and Walker could be moot. Maybe the Jazz are able to get #1 and #4? If so, then there's lots of scenarios, but we'd could still get Williams and Knight/Walker. Hey, it's even possible that the Jazz cook up a trade to get both Walker and Knight.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'll say this, if we do end up picking Knight, I think you'll need to have another strong personality at another position then. Is Gordon that guy? Do we go ahead and trade up and get Derrick Williams then and pick Knight a bit later? For example, if we someone get #2 and still keep #3 or trade down and have #2 and say #5? If you don't get Kemba, then I'd go Derrick Williams as your guy who draws attention and then Knight at #5.

Of course, noone knows for sure what kind of trades the Jazz are cooking up. It all depends on where they pick and who the Jazz are willing to give up in return? I'm guessing there will be at least one trade, maybe a multi-team trade before it's all said and done. In other words, all this talk between Knight and Walker could be moot. Maybe the Jazz are able to get #1 and #4? If so, then there's lots of scenarios, but we'd could still get Williams and Knight/Walker. Hey, it's even possible that the Jazz cook up a trade to get both Walker and Knight.

Why?

 

[Guitaro]

Why?

Is Knight really an outspoken leader? We don't have an outspoken coach anymore, so we'll need one on the floor.

 

[Guitaro]

Knight had the luxury of a coach that really pushed him. Do you guys think Corbin will do the same? I don't think he will, but it's hard to know for sure.

We have a younger team now. Who is the leader on this team? I think Hayward could be, but he's more of a lead by example guy.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Is Knight really an outspoken leader? We don't have an outspoken coach anymore, so we'll need one on the floor.

If you get a marginal talent with a strong personality, you get a great complementary player. I'm hoping for more with #3.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Is Knight really an outspoken leader? We don't have an outspoken coach anymore, so we'll need one on the floor.

Who on the Spurs was an outspoken leader? They where all pretty quiet dudes.

 

[Guitaro]

If you get a marginal talent with a strong personality, you get a great complementary player. I'm hoping for more with #3.

I agree. I was hoping there'd be more talent to choose from in this draft, but there's not. Many of the good wing players that we needed pulled out. Maybe it's time to start worrying about this draft and trade our #3 for a good shot at a high pick or two in next year's draft?

Otherwise, do you think Derrick Williams or Irving is worth trading up for? What about Kanter? I'm not sold on him either. This draft just seems to make many people uneasy, including me. I think that's why there's so much debate. Well, we'd debate anyway, but you know what I mean.

 

[Guitaro]

Ok, here's both scenarios:

Jazz Pick Knight:
Gordon Hayward becomes our dominant playmaker and we use Knight as our perimeter threat. When Knight drives, he can dish out to Hayward for an outside shot. Both players are great outside shooters. If the Jazz added Jimmer, then both PGs would play a similar role. Our bigs would rely on isolation passes or drive-and-dishes from Hayward and sometimes from Knight and CJ. Our offense would rely more on outside shooting and threes unless we continue to use Jefferson in the isolation play a lot. Finesse play and offense would be our strength.

Jazz Pick Kemba:
Kemba is your playmaker with a drive-and-dish offense. We use Hayward and sometime Jimmer together with Kemba. CJ doesn't need to drive as much and can focus on his outside shooting. Our bigs would get drive-and-dish passes from Kemba, Hayward and sometimes CJ, depending on who had the ball. We'd use an attack offense that draws a lot of fouls and gets lots of easy points off free-throws and paint points. Gritty, physical play would be our style.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

Gordon Hayward becomes our dominant playmaker

Haha. Good one.

 

[Guitaro]

Haha. Good one.

Well, Knight isn't known as a pure PG, so that's what will happen. Harris, to me, is just a band-aid. He's more of a shooter than a playmaker. Hayward isn't as fancy as you'd want from a dominant playmaker, but make no mistake, that's what will happen. Dont' like it? Draft a true playmaking point guard, either now or next year. Otherwise, we'll need to make a trade for one.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Knight had the luxury of a coach that really pushed him.

Whoa, time out. And Kemba didn't?

Compare apples to apples, Kemba's freshman year, his contribution is simply DWARFED by Knight's. And while Kemba won a national championship as a junior, is that anymore impressive than Knight leading his team to a final four appearance as a freshman still very much improving as he went? For a "pure PG", Kemba didn't appear to get anymore assists even if he had fewer turnovers (experience).

I do not see how a person could project Kemba as the better pro. That includes you, Givony.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Whoa, time out. And Kemba didn't?

Compare apples to apples, Kemba's freshman year, his contribution is simply DWARFED by Knight's. And while Kemba won a national championship as a junior, is that anymore impressive than Knight leading his team to a final four appearance as a freshman still very much improving as he went? For a "pure PG", Kemba didn't appear to get anymore assists even if he had fewer turnovers (experience).

I do not see how a person could project Kemba as the better pro. That includes you, Givony.

So you are going with "leading" eh?
Brandon Knight had one good game in the tournament, he are his PG related totals:

FG: 32%
Assists: 22
Turnovers: 17

 

[Guitaro]

Who on the Spurs was an outspoken leader? They where all pretty quiet dudes.

They have an outspoken coach. That's what I'm saying. You either need an outspoken coach or a floor general. Some teams have both and do really well. Some have conflicts and usually one or the other changes sooner or later. In our case, Deron clashed with Sloan to the point of big change. Kobe clashed with Phil but their professionalism overruled their egos.

So what are the Spurs players? The Spurs are made up of intense but lead-by-example professionals. Although, how many times have you seen Duncan go over to a guy and do a head-hold consultation on the court when they make a mistake?

Duncan is their unquestionable leader and anchor. Ginobili is their engine. Parker is the front of the boat that breaks up the ice.

 

[Guitaro]

Whoa, time out. And Kemba didn't?

Compare apples to apples, Kemba's freshman year, his contribution is simply DWARFED by Knight's. And while Kemba won a national championship as a junior, is that anymore impressive than Knight leading his team to a final four appearance as a freshman still very much improving as he went? For a "pure PG", Kemba didn't appear to get anymore assists even if he had fewer turnovers (experience).

I do not see how a person could project Kemba as the better pro. That includes you, Givony.

I never said Kemba didn't. I was just answering his critique.

I also never said that Kemba is a pure PG. I merely said that Kemba is basically a better floor general than Knight at this "point".

Don't misunderstand, I like Kemba better for his intangibles, and my own gut, but I do like both players overall and I think the Jazz could really go either way and do well. Mostly, I wanted to get the discussion going about these two in particular.

I also posted both scenarios for my own benefit as well. I wanted to imagine what the Jazz would be like with both guys. With that being said, Irving would be a better choice for the Jazz than either player, to be honest. However, Irving has flaws as well.

Perhaps the Jazz shouldn't be in such a rush to replace Deron?

The Jazz should stick to their philosophy and pick the BPA or make trades to get who they really want. I would actually prefer if the Jazz did this.

No need to be impatient. With Larry and Sloan gone, there's no pending deadline to win a championship tomorrow. Do it right and build through the draft (BPA) along with smart trades to fill in the missing pieces.

 

[NUMBERICA]

So you are going with "leading" eh?
Brandon Knight had one good game in the tournament, he are his PG related totals:

FG: 32%
Assists: 22
Turnovers: 17

It was not a statistically impressive run for him individually. But if we're to put so much stock in team success, that's rather irrelevant. However, if we're not, Knight destroys or hangs with Walker in every area except for fouls drawn and turnovers. Not bad for a 2-year age and experience disparity at the most critical period in development.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Perhaps the Jazz shouldn't be in such a rush to replace Deron?

I think we ultimately agree. I'm not in love with Knight, either. But I DO think the Jazz should start looking for PGs of the future by scooping up some later picks in the draft and see if they do anything (I started a stupid thread about it) since the rebuilding timeline and Harris's timeline don't project well together.

 

[Guitaro]

I think we ultimately agree. I'm not in love with Knight, either. But I DO think the Jazz should start looking for PGs of the future by scooping up some later picks in the draft and see if they do anything (I started a stupid thread about it) since the rebuilding timeline and Harris's timeline don't project well together.

I agree 100%. I think they could do well by picking up guys like Nolan Smith who wouldn't cost much but seemed to run Duke just fine in Irving's absence. Then, the Jazz could focus their offense more at the other positions based on who the BPA is. As they say, let the defense determine what offense you use. No sense in forcing things.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

They have an outspoken coach. That's what I'm saying. You either need an outspoken coach or a floor general. Some teams have both and do really well. Some have conflicts and usually one or the other changes sooner or later. In our case, Deron clashed with Sloan to the point of big change. Kobe clashed with Phil but their professionalism overruled their egos.

So what are the Spurs players? The Spurs are made up of intense but lead-by-example professionals. Although, how many times have you seen Duncan go over to a guy and do a head-hold consultation on the court when they make a mistake?

Duncan is their unquestionable leader and anchor. Ginobili is their engine. Parker is the front of the boat that breaks up the ice.

Popavich is outspoken?

 

[BENTLEY]

Perhaps the Jazz shouldn't be in such a rush to replace Deron?

No need to be impatient. With Larry and Sloan gone, there's no pending deadline to win a championship tomorrow. Do it right and build through the draft (BPA) along with smart trades to fill in the missing pieces.

This. Especially when the best PGs this year (other than Irving) don't get me all that geeked. Harris will be fine at "band-aid" (as someone referred to him). Wait til you're smitten.