Kris Dunn

[Handlogten's Heros]

We don’t, but it gives us some pieces. Look at how Lue used Beverley, for instance. Barely played in the first round when he wasn’t needed. Used more in second round but minutes yo-yo’d. I think we definitely need a defensive upgrade and think we definitely need a bit smaller dose of Clarkson with new additions, but I’d also have the same concerns about Smart being 25+ MPG. He’s a terrible shooter, too. I think the difference between Smart and Dunn is likely opportunity. But Dunn affords you the ability to keep him as a smaller piece. In the same way that Gay will fill a super-Niang role, Dunn could fill a super-Oni role.

tl;dr Dunn at 15 mpg is possibly better than Smart at 25+ mpg because I think you’d get diminishing returns with more Smart minutes. 18-20 mpg would be the sweet spot and I don’t think you could bring him in for that role.

I disagree with the theory here… but the acquisition cost is a huge difference here. Just have to find a way to save some pennies along the way.

I also think Butler can play so sending out JC for Smart does provide him some opportunities.

I have a hard time seeing a better use for the TPE with more upside than sending out Hughes for Dunn (two deals both using tpes) and getting a second for our troubles. If Dunn is good and healthy maybe you find something useful with JC that reduces the tax later.

If you put Hughes in the deal and waive Brantley then you are only adding about 8M in costs between tax and salary. Could further reduce the tax by waiving Oni and doing 10 day contracts intermittently and leaving the 13th spot open for as long as possible… so saves 2-3M.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Smart is a much better shooter than Dunn btw. The percentages seem close but volume is something to look at… teams sag off Dunn daring him to shoot… smart is good enough that they don’t beg him to shoot… big difference there.

 

[infection]

Smart is a much better shooter than Dunn btw. The percentages seem close but volume is something to look at… teams sag off Dunn daring him to shoot… smart is good enough that they don’t beg him to shoot… big difference there.

I’d again go back to role. With everyone else on the team, they’ll be daring both those guys to shoot. 15 minutes of Dunn vs. 25+ minutes of Smart. Tell Dunn he’s here to be the defensive specialist on a championship team while he rehabs his value in a contract year. He’s never been on a playoff team. Put Smart on the the floor for 25+ minutes in a contract year and he’s gonna want to be a piece of the offense. I feel like Dunn’s bad offense is tolerable for 15 minutes, but starting to go more than that (with Smart) is going to start having noticeable side effects with our offense. I think we’d definitely feel it offensively if Smart is on the floor half the game or more. It would eat a lot into what we do.

 

[NAOS]

I’d again go back to role. With everyone else on the team, they’ll be daring both those guys to shoot. 15 minutes of Dunn vs. 25+ minutes of Smart. Tell Dunn he’s here to be the defensive specialist on a championship team while he rehabs his value in a contract year. He’s never been on a playoff team. Put Smart on the the floor for 25+ minutes in a contract year and he’s gonna want to be a piece of the offense. I feel like Dunn’s bad offense is tolerable for 15 minutes, but starting to go more than that (with Smart) is going to start having noticeable side effects with our offense. I think we’d definitely feel it offensively if Smart is on the floor half the game or more. It would eat a lot into what we do.

Looking at the construction of our roster, I’m not sure Q would be giving Dunn 15 minutes a night. Because it’s his contract year, any languishing in the bench could be rough.

I’m still on-board with the idea. But I’m also really curious about what we have with Forrest and Butler. I can’t see how Mitchell, Conley, JC, Forrest, Butler, and Dunn get time.

 

[infection]

Looking at the construction of our roster, I’m not sure Q would be giving Dunn 15 minutes a night. Because it’s his contract year, any languishing in the bench could be rough.

I’m still on-board with the idea. But I’m also really curious about what we have with Forrest and Butler. I can’t see how Mitchell, Conley, JC, Forrest, Butler, and Dunn get time.

I'd certainly question his ability to give him that time, too, as he'll probably have a tight rotation, though probably not quite as tight as last year. Dunn's may not play every game (there's health questions, too), but Miye Oni played in 3/4 of the games and got 10 mpg. When you account for injuries and such it adds up. I think Forrest is the guy he takes minutes from. At least in my mind (maybe not in Quin's) he and Butler play completely different roles. Dunn's minutes come from a slight shave of Mitchell, Conley, and JC, then he gets all Oni minutes. I'm comparing this against Smart. If you plug Smart in to JC minutes, then I think you have the same issue with Forrest (you may not want to play him more minutes because it's the same type of minutes that you're giving Smart) and you have to hope that Butler makes up enough of JC's value (perhaps he does in terms of floor spacing). There's going to be the inevitable injury. I just think there's a lot of value in keeping JC on his contract, whether that's even for trade or whatever, but giving a real option for defense that has played NBA minutes. Now, maybe Forrest can do this, and that'd be great. I'd like to see Quin use Forrest as a wing defender, but thus far he didn't try that (despite him looking better than Oni). And perhaps he wouldn't even do that with Dunn. But I think if you're headed into a series with Harden and Kyrie, you may want a few minutes of Dunn.

 

[NAOS]

I'd certainly question his ability to give him that time, too, as he'll probably have a tight rotation, though probably not quite as tight as last year. Dunn's may not play every game (there's health questions, too), but Miye Oni played in 3/4 of the games and got 10 mpg. When you account for injuries and such it adds up. I think Forrest is the guy he takes minutes from. At least in my mind (maybe not in Quin's) he and Butler play completely different roles. Dunn's minutes come from a slight shave of Mitchell, Conley, and JC, then he gets all Oni minutes. I'm comparing this against Smart. If you plug Smart in to JC minutes, then I think you have the same issue with Forrest (you may not want to play him more minutes because it's the same type of minutes that you're giving Smart) and you have to hope that Butler makes up enough of JC's value (perhaps he does in terms of floor spacing). There's going to be the inevitable injury. I just think there's a lot of value in keeping JC on his contract, whether that's even for trade or whatever, but giving a real option for defense that has played NBA minutes. Now, maybe Forrest can do this, and that'd be great. I'd like to see Quin use Forrest as a wing defender, but thus far he didn't try that (despite him looking better than Oni). And perhaps he wouldn't even do that with Dunn. But I think if you're headed into a series with Harden and Kyrie, you may want a few minutes of Dunn.

For sure. I’m just wondering where Dunn’s head would be—after a (contract) season where he probably gets limited, irregular minutes.

Again, for the record, I’m all about getting Dunn. The situation for acquisition seems pretty perfect on paper.

Maybe if Gay-Gobert combos work really well, we could play a few minutes with 3-guards alongside them.

 

[infection]

For sure. I’m just wondering where Dunn’s head would be—after a (contract) season where he probably gets limited, irregular minutes.

Again, for the record, I’m all about getting Dunn. The situation for acquisition seems pretty perfect on paper.

Maybe if Gay-Gobert combos work really well, we could play a few minutes with 3-guards alongside them.

Yeah, and those are the reasons I’m skittish on Smart. He’s going to want a role that you’re going to have to give him. Dunn is coming off an injury and played 4 games last year. While the role wouldn’t be huge, it would be a noticeable role and he’d be playing on a (hopefully) deep playoff team as being the featured defensive specialist, even if in limited minutes. The other part is that I’d be playing him specifically as a specialist, so it doesn’t really matter who you surround him with (he could siphon minutes 1-4, even if he’s not technically playing that). Closest thing to a closing pitcher (without closing).

 

[Jazz Fusion]

The good & bad with Kris Dunn:

Boston Celtics: What the Cs can expect out of Kris Dunn

This article will tell you all about Kris Dunn on both sides of the ball and what the Boston Celtics can expect from him this upcoming season.

www.google.com

 

[infection]

The good & bad with Kris Dunn:

Boston Celtics: What the Cs can expect out of Kris Dunn

This article will tell you all about Kris Dunn on both sides of the ball and what the Boston Celtics can expect from him this upcoming season.

www.google.com

Thanks. From the article regarding the good of his defense:

If he can stay healthy with the Boston Celtics, the hope is the sixth-year veteran can recreate his fantastic 2019-20 defensive season off the bench.

During this campaign, Dunn averaged two steals per game in 25 minutes per game and led the league in D-RAPTOR and D-LEBRON amongst guards. His impact was insane given how low his minute count was compared to the league’s other elite guard defenders, and the Cs should hope he can revert to that.

Many things made Dunn so dominant on the defensive end, but the biggest was by far his hands.

Dunn had arguably the most active hands in the league, tallying steals and deflections like there’s no tomorrow.

He pried the ball from careless ball handlers and was very good at digging on bigs looking to punish the Bulls in the post. Dunn’s reflexes and motor allowed him to keep him with smaller guards, and his rigid frame allowed him to stick with bigger wings, making him one of the most versatile guard defenders the league has to offer.

The Boston Celtics can put Dunn’s defensive abilities to good use by sticking him at the nail to help or putting him on the opposing team’s best ball handler to give Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown a rest.

His point of attack defense will change the game for Al Horford and Robert Williams, allowing them to sit deeper and prioritize protecting the rim instead of switching so often.

 

[infection]

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’d again go back to role. With everyone else on the team, they’ll be daring both those guys to shoot. 15 minutes of Dunn vs. 25+ minutes of Smart. Tell Dunn he’s here to be the defensive specialist on a championship team while he rehabs his value in a contract year. He’s never been on a playoff team. Put Smart on the the floor for 25+ minutes in a contract year and he’s gonna want to be a piece of the offense. I feel like Dunn’s bad offense is tolerable for 15 minutes, but starting to go more than that (with Smart) is going to start having noticeable side effects with our offense. I think we’d definitely feel it offensively if Smart is on the floor half the game or more. It would eat a lot into what we do.

The issue is it isn't 25 minutes of Smart versus 15 minutes of Dunn... its 25 minutes of Smart vs. 25 minutes of JC and zero minutes of Dunn. He's insurance at the moment. Quin gonna bench JC for Dunn? Nope.

I still wouldn't mind giving him an opportunity... maybe he's healthy and takes up the 20 minutes that Butler would have gotten when Mike and Joe rest and shows that he deserves more and then you move JC for something.

The difference in shooting is bigger than folks realize. Smart is a willing shooter so his low 30s percentage is not because he's wide *** open... if he only shoots when he is wide *** open he might be a lot closer to 40%. Smart is like Crowder imo... willingness to shoot gives him some gravity...

My first choice is Smart for JC... give JC's minutes to Smart. Hes a guy that is hard to take him off the floor in the playoffs... versus JC is a guy you want to limit his minutes in the post season. Regular season it might be a slight step back imo.

Second choice... sure.. spend some of Ryan's money to get Dunn and get a 2nd rounder in the process to make it more palatable... but understand its likely to go the way of Shaq where the guy just doesn't see the court much... you may not see Butler at all... which sucks for me but may be better tbh... even "ready made" rookies struggle.

IF Dunn is healthy and Butler is looking solid in practice/G league then you might use JC as a trade chip. Dunn might be the better "value" play... but I don't think he actually gets any chance to give that value... so is it better value?

Part of this is also a concern on JC... his trade value is one of those things that could tip the wrong way if his post-AS shooting splits are more like what he really is 40/32 vs 45/37 and when you are talking about the volume he puts them up at... 32% from JC is worse than 32% from Smart.

I'd be super happy if we went with Dunn and would lower the sting of the financial burden by putting Hughes in the deal and waiving Oni. Carry 13 guys and add a 10 day guy every 2 weeks or whatever until the rules dictate that you have to sign a 14th guy... I think Forrest gets a two-way and if all else fails you could just convert his deal and add another. The net cost is likely +5-7M between tax and salary. Might cut that in half if you can grab a second in the process.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The issue is it isn't 25 minutes of Smart versus 15 minutes of Dunn... its 25 minutes of Smart vs. 25 minutes of JC and zero minutes of Dunn. He's insurance at the moment. Quin gonna bench JC for Dunn? Nope.

I still wouldn't mind giving him an opportunity... maybe he's healthy and takes up the 20 minutes that Butler would have gotten when Mike and Joe rest and shows that he deserves more and then you move JC for something.

The difference in shooting is bigger than folks realize. Smart is a willing shooter so his low 30s percentage is not because he's wide *** open... if he only shoots when he is wide *** open he might be a lot closer to 40%. Smart is like Crowder imo... willingness to shoot gives him some gravity...

My first choice is Smart for JC... give JC's minutes to Smart. Hes a guy that is hard to take him off the floor in the playoffs... versus JC is a guy you want to limit his minutes in the post season. Regular season it might be a slight step back imo.

Second choice... sure.. spend some of Ryan's money to get Dunn and get a 2nd rounder in the process to make it more palatable... but understand its likely to go the way of Shaq where the guy just doesn't see the court much... you may not see Butler at all... which sucks for me but may be better tbh... even "ready made" rookies struggle.

IF Dunn is healthy and Butler is looking solid in practice/G league then you might use JC as a trade chip. Dunn might be the better "value" play... but I don't think he actually gets any chance to give that value... so is it better value?

Part of this is also a concern on JC... his trade value is one of those things that could tip the wrong way if his post-AS shooting splits are more like what he really is 40/32 vs 45/37 and when you are talking about the volume he puts them up at... 32% from JC is worse than 32% from Smart.

I'd be super happy if we went with Dunn and would lower the sting of the financial burden by putting Hughes in the deal and waiving Oni. Carry 13 guys and add a 10 day guy every 2 weeks or whatever until the rules dictate that you have to sign a 14th guy... I think Forrest gets a two-way and if all else fails you could just convert his deal and add another. The net cost is likely +5-7M between tax and salary. Might cut that in half if you can grab a second in the process.

My third choice is doing nothing... so Dunn is a good option #2 imo if Smart is unavailable... just to be clear.

Another nerdy CBA thing... you can use Dunn's salary with other salaries if another deal becomes available later... can't do that with a TPE. Not sure it becomes useful. You could also see if its working and flip JC into a slightly smaller deal... like say Indiana will give a first to swap Lamb for JC... you just saved the money you added by bringing on Dunn and got a pick for your trouble... if Lamb is good great... if not you've cleared some salary to restart the repeater tax clock and maybe use the full MLE the next year if something good popped up.

Dunn could stay engaged when out of the rotation by going offense for defense end of halfs, quarters, and sneaking into the rotation when Mike and Joe are out. I just think to get the true effect of what Dunn or Smart could bring you'd need to clear up the rotation and would need to move on from JC. Maybe he can be strategically managed... there were times he didn't look completely right last year. Just let everyone know that they will be missing some games to get other guys on the court.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The question you ask yourself is.... Is it worth $7-8M to upgrade from Oni to Dunn? Calling that on the front end is tough... if Mike, Donovan, or Joe miss time its well worth it... assuming Dunn is somewhat healthy. The 10-day contract churn could also turn up something useful but thats a low level possibility.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Second unit of Dunn, Ingles, Gay, Whiteside and either Bogey or Royce could be pretty solid defensively... Whiteside can cover up the rim... Gay is an improvement and Dunn gets after the primary ball handler. Dunn can handle the ball which would take some of his gravity issues away. Its pretty interesting.

 

[infection]

The issue is it isn't 25 minutes of Smart versus 15 minutes of Dunn... its 25 minutes of Smart vs. 25 minutes of JC and zero minutes of Dunn. He's insurance at the moment. Quin gonna bench JC for Dunn? Nope.

I still wouldn't mind giving him an opportunity... maybe he's healthy and takes up the 20 minutes that Butler would have gotten when Mike and Joe rest and shows that he deserves more and then you move JC for something.

The difference in shooting is bigger than folks realize. Smart is a willing shooter so his low 30s percentage is not because he's wide *** open... if he only shoots when he is wide *** open he might be a lot closer to 40%. Smart is like Crowder imo... willingness to shoot gives him some gravity...

My first choice is Smart for JC... give JC's minutes to Smart. Hes a guy that is hard to take him off the floor in the playoffs... versus JC is a guy you want to limit his minutes in the post season. Regular season it might be a slight step back imo.

Second choice... sure.. spend some of Ryan's money to get Dunn and get a 2nd rounder in the process to make it more palatable... but understand its likely to go the way of Shaq where the guy just doesn't see the court much... you may not see Butler at all... which sucks for me but may be better tbh... even "ready made" rookies struggle.

IF Dunn is healthy and Butler is looking solid in practice/G league then you might use JC as a trade chip. Dunn might be the better "value" play... but I don't think he actually gets any chance to give that value... so is it better value?

Part of this is also a concern on JC... his trade value is one of those things that could tip the wrong way if his post-AS shooting splits are more like what he really is 40/32 vs 45/37 and when you are talking about the volume he puts them up at... 32% from JC is worse than 32% from Smart.

I'd be super happy if we went with Dunn and would lower the sting of the financial burden by putting Hughes in the deal and waiving Oni. Carry 13 guys and add a 10 day guy every 2 weeks or whatever until the rules dictate that you have to sign a 14th guy... I think Forrest gets a two-way and if all else fails you could just convert his deal and add another. The net cost is likely +5-7M between tax and salary. Might cut that in half if you can grab a second in the process.

The big question I have is what the FO thinks of Clarkson. He hasn't been mentioned at all in any kind of rumor. We know Quin loves him and gives him a long leash. Does JC address anything for Boston or just give them more favorable contract compared to what Smart wants? Smart is a put-all-chips-on-the-table and not worry about next year, so I'm not averse to those moves. Longer term if they're looking at JC as good value over the next few years, even as a trade chip. But really good points on his shooting. I'd be really excited if you could get him to not shoot unless open. If Butler shoots 38% on respectable volume (5 or more attempts per 36) then that makes it a lot easier to do. Other question is what is Smart's market and would they be more in asset accumulation mode as all we can offer is Clarkson.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The big question I have is what the FO thinks of Clarkson. He hasn't been mentioned at all in any kind of rumor. We know Quin loves him and gives him a long leash. Does JC address anything for Boston or just give them more favorable contract compared to what Smart wants? Smart is a put-all-chips-on-the-table and not worry about next year, so I'm not averse to those moves. Longer term if they're looking at JC as good value over the next few years, even as a trade chip. But really good points on his shooting. I'd be really excited if you could get him to not shoot unless open. If Butler shoots 38% on respectable volume (5 or more attempts per 36) then that makes it a lot easier to do. Other question is what is Smart's market and would they be more in asset accumulation mode as all we can offer is Clarkson.

I think Smart would be motivated and play pretty well. I think JC gives them an on ball scorer which is something they don't have outside of Tatum and Brown. I don't know that they'd have interest. Smart is less of a pg and more of a perimeter guy. I think they only do it if they are just worn out by him. Smart is a fiery competitor and a bit of an *******... we need that tbh... but too much can wear thin.

It might be better as a three team deal when Boston gets an expiring and a 1st from a team that wants JC... Indiana was a team I threw out there.

JC's name not being out there is puzzling to me. I guess I get why Joe's was in theory because he is one year and out... but JC is the player with the biggest swing between regular season effectiveness and playoff effectiveness imo. Would think he has decent value that we could realize but who knows.

 

[infection]

Dunn could stay engaged when out of the rotation by going offense for defense end of halfs, quarters, and sneaking into the rotation when Mike and Joe are out. I just think to get the true effect of what Dunn or Smart could bring you'd need to clear up the rotation and would need to move on from JC. Maybe he can be strategically managed... there were times he didn't look completely right last year. Just let everyone know that they will be missing some games to get other guys on the court.

This paragraph is where I'm at with it. First, Dunn is a utility guy. In the past I've been pretty big on balance -- having the right guys getting utilized with minutes available and more perfectly approximating their ideal minutes. The belief is to not add too much to the equation. That's essentially the route we took on one extreme. We kept 8 NBA rotation quality guys (you can argue Niang, which is neither here nor there, but we didn't know he was a rotation piece last year) and we left precisely nothing after that. On the flip side you have these teams in big markets stocking up on lots of talent on deep bench. Not that Boogie is a good example, but someone comes in and you can throw them into the mix if needed (that's also asking way more flexibility out of Quin than he's shown). But there will be inevitable injuries. I think our history proves that it would be better to risk someone not being fully utilized than having guys you may not want in the rotation being there. Obviously we have a lot more depth this year to withstand that, but if Donovan, Conley or JC go down you'd still want some excess depth. Dunn's a lot better than Oni. He can play a legit role beyond crossing your fingers that you can weather the Oni minutes and that he looks like an NBA player.

 

[infection]

I think Smart would be motivated and play pretty well. I think JC gives them an on ball scorer which is something they don't have outside of Tatum and Brown. I don't know that they'd have interest. Smart is less of a pg and more of a perimeter guy. I think they only do it if they are just worn out by him. Smart is a fiery competitor and a bit of an *******... we need that tbh... but too much can wear thin.

It might be better as a three team deal when Boston gets an expiring and a 1st from a team that wants JC... Indiana was a team I threw out there.

JC's name not being out there is puzzling to me. I guess I get why Joe's was in theory because he is one year and out... but JC is the player with the biggest swing between regular season effectiveness and playoff effectiveness imo. Would think he has decent value that we could realize but who knows.

My other curiosity on JC is if he's more efficient when there's a lot of other offense on the floor the defense has to pay attention to. If Mike was playing in the playoffs, how much more efficient is JC, if any? Obviously high volumes is how he plays, so not as much affected by it, but there will be more options around him this year that the defense has to focus on, especially if Mike is healthy. But are you sacrificing who he is and taking away his value with that strategy.

 

[KqWIN]

Dunn is an expensive contract for a guy that won't see the floor.

 

[slc]

Not sure about moving JC
Jazz give up a lot of fire power