Kris Dunn

[Handlogten's Heros]

My other curiosity on JC is if he's more efficient when there's a lot of other offense on the floor the defense has to pay attention to. If Mike was playing in the playoffs, how much more efficient is JC, if any? Obviously high volumes is how he plays, so not as much affected by it, but there will be more options around him this year that the defense has to focus on, especially if Mike is healthy. But are you sacrificing who he is and taking away his value with that strategy.

I think JC is great... that said I think he doesn't really make anyone better. He kinda does his thing and is more of an offensive floor raiser than a ceiling raiser. He's perfect in a bench role imo. If he traded a couple pullup threes a night for catch and shoots for himself or Joe/Don/Mike it might make him more effective.

I think he struggles to toggle between passing and scoring so its better if he is just really focused on scoring. Seems like most of his turnover come on slow decision making when trying to playmake.

The question to me is not can JC be more effective or help others but can we get something from that spot that does help others and can we replace that usage with equal or better usage. JC is a 24+ minute a night guy in the regular season but I think is more a 15 minute a night guy in the playoffs ideally... unless he has it really rolling or matchups line up well.

 

[infection]

I think JC is great... that said I think he doesn't really make anyone better. He kinda does his thing and is more of an offensive floor raiser than a ceiling raiser. He's perfect in a bench role imo. If he traded a couple pullup threes a night for catch and shoots for himself or Joe/Don/Mike it might make him more effective.

I think he struggles to toggle between passing and scoring so its better if he is just really focused on scoring. Seems like most of his turnover come on slow decision making when trying to playmake.

The question to me is not can JC be more effective or help others but can we get something from that spot that does help others and can we replace that usage with equal or better usage. JC is a 24+ minute a night guy in the regular season but I think is more a 15 minute a night guy in the playoffs ideally... unless he has it really rolling or matchups line up well.

And my question would be about that reduction in the playoffs. You shave 10 minutes of playing time from him, where does it go? Is it just to get Donovan and Mike and Rudy Gay more burn? Or do those minutes open up for a defensive specialist, of which he'd be the only option on the roster? Bojan averaged 38 mpg against the Clippers. Obviously you can give some to Gay, but there are some options with where these minutes come from in the playoffs.

 

[infection]

My tl;dr is you're either going out for Smart or you're having the Smart you've got at home in the freezer (Dunn). Going out for Smart may not even be an option because they require a jacket and we don't have one. Plus if we heat up frozen Smart at home we can do it while catching up on Netflix rather than having to deal with parking and the hustle and bustle of the city.

 

[NAOS]

My tl;dr is you're either going out for Smart or you're having the Smart you've got at home in the freezer (Dunn). Going out for Smart may not even be an option because they require a jacket and we don't have one. Plus if we heat up frozen Smart at home we can do it while catching up on Netflix rather than having to deal with parking and the hustle and bustle of the city.

That you, DL?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That you, DL?

Nah... DL would be telling you we don't need to do anything because we have Forrest and Oni on the rise.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And my question would be about that reduction in the playoffs. You shave 10 minutes of playing time from him, where does it go? Is it just to get Donovan and Mike and Rudy Gay more burn? Or do those minutes open up for a defensive specialist, of which he'd be the only option on the roster? Bojan averaged 38 mpg against the Clippers. Obviously you can give some to Gay, but there are some options with where these minutes come from in the playoffs.

IDK... JC has been needed the last two playoffs because of injuries and bubble absences from Mike and Bogey. It may be a re-occurring theme and might be the reason you keep him. If we were 100% healthy more minutes go to Joe/Royce/Bogey/Mike/Donovan and less to JC imo. I doubt if you had Dunn you'd give him the last 15-18 minutes.

 

[infection]

That you, DL?

No, his idea of Smart at home is Oni. In fact, when all his friends go out for a nice night of Smart, he dinedls with them but brings his frozen Oni.

 

[KqWIN]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm not really concerned about covering Conley, Mitchell, Ingles ect if/when they miss time in the RS. The worst case scenario is that we simply don't win more regular season games...which was never the goal in the first place. I'm also going to keep pointing out that we have an extreme surplus of scorers. This team already performed better when one of them was out, now we've added even more scorers to the mix. So I am not concerned in the slightest about moving one of the scorers for a better defensive player.

I think Dunn is good enough to maybe be inserted into a game for spot minutes. Maybe you insert him into the game and he mixes things up for a stretch. I don't think that is ultimately too impactful and we don't have a coach who is willing to do that anyways. These are the things I think we focus too much on. I'm not saying Dunn can't help, but you're really not going to change the outlook of your team by changing up the end of rotation type players.

To me, Smart/Anderson for JC/Bogey is the type of move that needs to happen. Smart isn't an end of rotation/roster player, especially in the playoffs. He's a player you're dying to have on the court. With the roster complexion the way it is, the Jazz should have zero reservations about losing scoring and a desperation for a more versatile/defensive player.

 

[infection]

Nah... DL would be telling you we don't need to do anything because we have Forrest and Oni on the rise.

Posted mine before I saw this.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I'm not really concerned about covering Conley, Mitchell, Ingles ect if/when they miss time in the RS. The worst case scenario is that we simply don't win more regular season games...which was never the goal in the first place. I'm also going to keep pointing out that we have an extreme surplus of scorers. This team already performed better when one of them was out, now we've added even more scorers to the mix. So I am not concerned in the slightest about moving one of the scorers for a better defensive player.

I think Dunn is good enough to maybe be inserted into a game for spot minutes. Maybe you insert him into the game and he mixes things up for a stretch. I don't think that is ultimately too impactful and we don't have a coach who is willing to do that anyways. These are the things I think we focus too much on. I'm not saying Dunn can't help, but you're really not going to change the outlook of your team by changing up the end of rotation type players.

To me, Smart/Anderson for JC/Bogey is the type of move that needs to happen. Smart isn't an end of rotation/roster player, especially in the playoffs. He's a player you're dying to have on the court. With the roster complexion the way it is, the Jazz should have zero reservations about losing scoring and a desperation for a more versatile/defensive player.

I think Dunn is in the top tier of guard defenders when healthy... He's elite. The offense is generally bad because of shooting. I think if he was on the court for 15 minutes in lieu of JC there is certainly a pretty big swing defensively.

We need to be careful about saying guys at the end of the rotation don't matter or likely won't change our world... it is likely true... we've improved our depth but we were ousted by a team in large part because of moves they made at the end of their bench... Reggie Jackson, Mann, Nic Batum were all kinda fringy moves and all had huge dividends for the team. Dunn might be a tier below those moves and end up being the "Rondo" move... but there are times when those moves are magnified later.

I agree on Smart... I think the cap mechanics actually kinda work too. We should be able to pay to keep him if he's worth it... if he's not then we are in a great position cap wise to make some marginal moves.

 

[infection]

I think Dunn is in the top tier of guard defenders when healthy... He's elite. The offense is generally bad because of shooting. I think if he was on the court for 15 minutes in lieu of JC there is certainly a pretty big swing defensively.

We need to be careful about saying guys at the end of the rotation don't matter or likely won't change our world... it is likely true... we've improved our depth but we were ousted by a team in large part because of moves they made at the end of their bench... Reggie Jackson, Mann, Nic Batum were all kinda fringy moves and all had huge dividends for the team. Dunn might be a tier below those moves and end up being the "Rondo" move... but there are times when those moves are magnified later.

I agree on Smart... I think the cap mechanics actually kinda work too. We should be able to pay to keep him if he's worth it... if he's not then we are in a great position cap wise to make some marginal moves.

Perhaps we trade JC for Smart, we like what Smart does but aren't able to retain him, so next year we sign Dunn.

 

[infection]

Also this move would complete our offseason and would like to see which Jazz media person first makes the “they’re Dunn” pun. Probably Andy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No, his idea of Smart at home is Oni. In fact, when all his friends go out for a nice night of Smart, he dinedls with them but brings his frozen Oni.

DL is the guy that takes the PB and J he made at home (oni) to the clients office while doing fieldwork... he pockets the per diem his company allows him (cap space) and even saves the zip lock bag he put the sandwich in for use later (this represents no one but this is an actual example of a person I used to work with and he actually did this).

 

[infection]

DL is the guy that takes the PB and J he made at home (oni) to the clients office while doing fieldwork... he pockets the per diem his company allows him (cap space) and even saves the zip lock bag he put the sandwich in for use later (this represents no one but this is an actual example of a person I used to work with and he actually did this).

With all that per diem he saves he is able to reinvest it into his lunches.

 

[KqWIN]

I think Dunn is in the top tier of guard defenders when healthy... He's elite. The offense is generally bad because of shooting. I think if he was on the court for 15 minutes in lieu of JC there is certainly a pretty big swing defensively.

We need to be careful about saying guys at the end of the rotation don't matter or likely won't change our world... it is likely true... we've improved our depth but we were ousted by a team in large part because of moves they made at the end of their bench... Reggie Jackson, Mann, Nic Batum were all kinda fringy moves and all had huge dividends for the team. Dunn might be a tier below those moves and end up being the "Rondo" move... but there are times when those moves are magnified later.

I agree on Smart... I think the cap mechanics actually kinda work too. We should be able to pay to keep him if he's worth it... if he's not then we are in a great position cap wise to make some marginal moves.

I don't think the Clipper moves are similar to a potential Dunn move. Those guys had clear cut roles when they joined or were competing with other fringe players for minutes. Mann developed into his role, but that would be more akin to one of our own younger guys finding a spot.

Depth isn't bad, more is always better, but the Jazz major weakness is in the closing 5. Even in a world where Quin would be willing to play Dunn instead of JC (he won't), that's very impact compared to a starter level player who's playing 30+ minutes and closing games. The Jazz have that type of problem and if we don't address it we're setting up for another historic defensive failure.

I get why people are in love with this off season, but it baffles me this major and obvious issue continues to get ignored. We're obsessing over end of roster moves (which are important) when there's a major issue near the top. Smart would close games and play major minutes, especially in a playoff series. That is the type of change we should be obsessing over.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

With all that per diem he saves he is able to reinvest it into his lunches.

I mocked him mercilessly for the sandwich bags… he really re-used them.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think the Clipper moves are similar to a potential Dunn move. Those guys had clear cut roles when they joined or were competing with other fringe players for minutes. Mann developed into his role, but that would be more akin to one of our own younger guys finding a spot.

Depth isn't bad, more is always better, but the Jazz major weakness is in the closing 5. Even in a world where Quin would be willing to play Dunn instead of JC (he won't), that's very impact compared to a starter level player who's playing 30+ minutes and closing games. The Jazz have that type of problem and if we don't address it we're setting up for another historic defensive failure.

I get why people are in love with this off season, but it baffles me this major and obvious issue continues to get ignored. We're obsessing over end of roster moves (which are important) when there's a major issue near the top. Smart would close games and play major minutes, especially in a playoff series. That is the type of change we should be obsessing over.

I think Batum had a clear cut role for them that expanded as the season went on and injuries dictated. Jackson is very similar to Dunn imo... they had just brought on Kennard... still had Lou Will and Pat Bev. His minutes yo-yo'd at the beginning of the season as they were figuring out what worked. They thought they needed a floor general and even went out and added Rondo at the trade deadline... so RJ's role was not clear cut at all. They thought he might be useful, but it would have been reasonable to guess that he'd be out of the rotation at some point during the season if they were healthy. Very much like Dunn would be here.

Mann was a development surprise... but I use these guys as fringe roster additions that can change things for you. One of those types of moves isn't enough on its own... but as a whole they have a material effect on the season for sure. So when folks say "who cares player X is your 8th/9th man" it doesn't really work for me. Dunn might get mothballed like Rondo did... but he also might really help.

I agree with the overall assessment on Smart being better... definitely the preferred route from my perspective. I think Dunn could be a useful specialist because he is incredibly good at the thing he does well. If Butler isn't ready he'd be useful in managing the season and keeping DM, Mike, and Joe healthy through load management. If Quin doesn't have good options I don't see us willingly going into load management mode until it becomes injury management.

My line of thinking on Dunn is - If we are in the Clippers series and everything is going the way it was and the only thing that changed is we had a healthy Kris Dunn do I think Quin would use him? I do... Do I think it would matter? Yes I think it would. RJ was killing us... Dunn can help stem that tide. He might also be able to sneak in and disrupt some drives. He might have hurt us offensively but I might prefer him to Royce at times.

We've solved the frontcourt depth problems imo... the perimeter/guard depth issues are hopefully solved by Butler, Forrest, and decent health. Kind of a grab bag there. I agree Smart would be like a perfect solution theoretically. But I think Dunn is a really useful second option and if it only costs $7M extra I'd do it in a heart beat. Might be able to get a second rounder for your trouble. Boston may not make Smart available at all and if they did they might do better than JC.

If the Dunn acquisition had no impact it is either because he was hurt (that sucks) or because the team was healthy and/or Butler looks good... I think you'd be in a pretty good place if the latter is true. We need to make as many good bets as we can imo.

 

[Keefe]

Are the Celtics actively shopping Smart though? Has it been alluded to? Has he said he won’t re-sign when his contract is up? I’m asking because it feels fairly moot to even discuss him so much if the answer to all of those questions are no.

 

[infection]

Are the Celtics actively shopping Smart though? Has it been alluded to? Has he said he won’t re-sign when his contract is up? I’m asking because it feels fairly moot to even discuss him so much if the answer to all of those questions are no.

Mostly speculation and ongoing questions about extension. But there’s way more smoke about simply dumping Dunn, especially if they land DS.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Are the Celtics actively shopping Smart though? Has it been alluded to? Has he said he won’t re-sign when his contract is up? I’m asking because it feels fairly moot to even discuss him so much if the answer to all of those questions are no.

He's been in rumors for a year or so now. Actively shopping is probably strong... but if he won't sign an extension or they can't agree that is where it goes.