Las Vegas Summer League thread

[Keefe]

25%. For all the hate on Whiteside… he’s very productive and has helped teams be better at times. He was solid his last year in Portland. The affect he has on winning doesn’t match the gawdy stats he puts up… as a backup he is solid. It’s more likely we go with Paschall and Gay imo than Udoka.

I’m assuming Doke will get a **** ton of burn in G-league. As he should. Dude hasn’t played in forever and needs playing time and to get into the best possible game shape. That said, my fear is, he’ll dominate, end up being on our playoff roster, and that in certain crucial playoff games, Whiteside will end up being a net negative on the court but Quin won’t pull him and try Doke, even though it will be so evident to everyone watching that he should be on the court, and this will happen because, well, Quin gets blinders on and isn’t great at adapting.

The fact that this, or something like this, is so predictable is the most frustrating part. Is anyone in Quin’s ear, professionally challenging him? Like, dude, you’re smart. Obviously. You’re a very good coach. But you’re not infallible and need to take a step back and objectively recognize your flaws.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m assuming Doke will get a **** ton of burn in G-league. As he should. Dude hasn’t played in forever and needs playing time and to get into the best possible game shape. That said, my fear is, he’ll dominate, end up being on our playoff roster, and that in certain crucial playoff games, Whiteside will end up being a net negative on the court but Quin won’t pull him and try Doke, even though it will be so evident to everyone watching that he should be on the court, and this will happen because, well, Quin gets blinders on and isn’t great at adapting.

The fact that this, or something like this, is so predictable is the most frustrating part. Is anyone in Quin’s ear, professionally challenging him? Like, dude, you’re smart. Obviously. You’re a very good coach. But you’re not infallible and need to take a step back and objectively recognize your flaws.

Nah. He goes with Gay or Paschall… especially in the playoffs. Udoka gets a 10 game tryout at some point when Whiteside gets hurt or maybe “managed” during the season. If Doke or the small ball options look really promising you might be able to trade Whiteside to a more long term situation and get a very minor asset for him.

 

[Keefe]

Nah. He goes with Gay or Paschall… especially in the playoffs. Udoka gets a 10 game tryout at some point when Whiteside gets hurt or maybe “managed” during the season. If Doke or the small ball options look really promising you might be able to trade Whiteside to a more long term situation and get a very minor asset for him.

I’m not sure Quin will go Gay small ball unless he’s forced to by the opponent.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m not sure Quin will go Gay small ball unless he’s forced to by the opponent.

He played a fair amount of minutes at the 5 last year. Listening to JZ somewhere (can’t remember where) it seemed like this will be a thing… Gays quotes yesterday also talk about the plan they have for him… TJ also said one of the main reasons they brought him in was to play small ball 5. We will see this and it will be especially useful in the playoffs when almost all teams get smaller and more skilled. I have zero doubt that we see this during the year.

 

[Keefe]

He played a fair amount of minutes at the 5 last year. Listening to JZ somewhere (can’t remember where) it seemed like this will be a thing… Gays quotes yesterday also talk about the plan they have for him… TJ also said one of the main reasons they brought him in was to play small ball 5. We will see this and it will be especially useful in the playoffs when almost all teams get smaller and more skilled. I have zero doubt that we see this during the year.

I have no doubt we’ll do it in the regular season some. I just see the playoffs as something in which less guys play, things can become a bit more structured. And I have trouble seeing Quin being able to deviate from that (especially if Whiteside has been good in the regular season) much at all, even if Gay small ball worked well in the regular season.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I have no doubt we’ll do it in the regular season some. I just see the playoffs as something in which less guys play, things can become a bit more structured. And I have trouble seeing Quin being able to deviate from that (especially if Whiteside has been good in the regular season) much at all, even if Gay small ball worked well in the regular season.

I feel like you haven’t watched the playoffs in a while. Playoffs get smaller and more skilled as they get to the later rounds. Bobby Portis, Torrey Craig, Nic Batum, etc become your backup centers… Warriors go with Green at center a lot more… PJ Tucker becomes a stretch 5. I think it’s the opposite… you see us play 5 minutes or so a night without a traditional center in the regular season… in the playoffs it goes to 10+ depending on matchup and how effective Rudy is.

 

[cowhide]

Udoka was very good

He certainly was not as good as he was in SLC. I would agree to disagree with your opinion. I still think he was one of the better players on the Jazz. I just didn't see anything great. Personally, I think he can handle back up minutes on the Jazz. I was expecting more so maybe that affect my opinion.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He certainly was not as good as he was in SLC. I would agree to disagree with your opinion. I still think he was one of the better players on the Jazz. I just didn't see anything great. Personally, I think he can handle back up minutes on the Jazz. I was expecting more so maybe that affect my opinion.

The Jazz dominated with him on the court. I dont know what more you want from him. His biggest issue right now is conditioning.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It is all the little amateur mistakes. "At half time the score is Phoenix 27, Utah 36." Stupid little **** a 7th grader should know.

What?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He certainly was not as good as he was in SLC. I would agree to disagree with your opinion. I still think he was one of the better players on the Jazz. I just didn't see anything great. Personally, I think he can handle back up minutes on the Jazz. I was expecting more so maybe that affect my opinion.

I mean they only tried to post him once and he’s fairly good down there… Brantley threw one of the worst entry passes I think I’ve seen. They missed him on like 2-3 easy dunks… SL is all for me and me for none… he needs to work on the following:

-conditioning… you could literally see as soon as the tank was empty he slowed a lot.
- not jumping at all very shot or lob attempt… have to be selective. He opened us up to a lot of offensive rebound… the thing that Rudy does so well that we don’t appreciate enough is he contests the shot and gathers the rebound… Udoka can’t sell out on every attempt. He will learn.

- box outs on defense. He does okay with an initial attempt but guys snuck around him… less of an issue in non summer league play because less guys will crash the offensive glass.

-FT shooting… it’s bad and it may just never improve. He needs to really focus on it. It’s not smooth at all. The motion isn’t awful but he kinda just flings it up there… it’s odd.

 

[Keefe]

I feel like you haven’t watched the playoffs in a while. Playoffs get smaller and more skilled as they get to the later rounds. Bobby Portis, Torrey Craig, Nic Batum, etc become your backup centers… Warriors go with Green at center a lot more… PJ Tucker becomes a stretch 5. I think it’s the opposite… you see us play 5 minutes or so a night without a traditional center in the regular season… in the playoffs it goes to 10+ depending on matchup and how effective Rudy is.

Those are all what other teams’ coaches will do. Not Quin.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

The Jazz dominated with him on the court. I dont know what more you want from him. His biggest issue right now is conditioning.

Exactly. The announcers would talk about Phoenix making a run and getting offensive boards (happened with Doke out). Comes back in and Utah goes on a run and stops the offensive boards (noted by announcers but not attributed to Doke).

Doke comes out and Phx starts dominating inside again. Rinse, repeat.

Doke played excellent D last night.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

Doke and Forrest are the only possible NBA players on our summer league roster.

God, the “me first” mentality of summer league makes it pretty unwatchable. Brantley is one of the worst offenders. I’m not at all sure what some of you see in Brantley, and I can’t believe the Jazz made him a QO. That dude’s still-pedestrian stats are nearly all empty calories.

Also noteworthy, Marcus Garrett is predictably tearing it up for the Heat by getting buckets and being a disruptor. Let all remember that I was the conductor on the Marcus Garrett train.

I just want Brantley and Oni gone. Signing an elite bench hypeman would be a better use of a roster spot than those two.

 

[kabenac]

Udoka played well. #42 had some good plays as well and shot well - the announcers were garbage when it came to saying who did what and so I don't remember his name.

Hopefully Forrest plays better - it wasn't awful but we all know he should have had less turnovers and shot better than 3-10. His one three bounced in which was nice and as usual his defense was good. Being a Forrest homer I look forward to better games.

 

[fishonjazz]

He played a fair amount of minutes at the 5 last year. Listening to JZ somewhere (can’t remember where) it seemed like this will be a thing… Gays quotes yesterday also talk about the plan they have for him… TJ also said one of the main reasons they brought him in was to play small ball 5. We will see this and it will be especially useful in the playoffs when almost all teams get smaller and more skilled. I have zero doubt that we see this during the year.

This all sounds great but was quin his coach last year?
I will believe it when I see it

 

[fishonjazz]

Those are all what other teams’ coaches will do. Not Quin.

Ya I mean small ball was destroying us. We had ersan that could play small ball. We played zero minutes total of small ball in the playoffs.

 

[slc]

Jazz did bring in some players that could play small ball
but they also now have Rudy, Hassan, and Udoka who looks ready to play
Jazz may decide to give a heavy dose of 48 minute rim protection and defensive rebounding
Jazz and Quin may decide other team will only get one shot per possession
That may put great pressure on other team to make shots
Time will tell what Quin will do

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This all sounds great but was quin his coach last year?
I will believe it when I see it

Ya I mean small ball was destroying us. We had ersan that could play small ball. We played zero minutes total of small ball in the playoffs.

Gay >>>>>>>>>>> Ersan

I get why folks are resistant but Quin never had real tools to play small ball 5. Rudy defends in space… rebounds… can shoot and if you close hard he can punish you on drives. In the playoffs we will go small… Quin can hit the road if he doesn’t try it.

 

[Keefe]

I feel like you haven’t watched the playoffs in a while. Playoffs get smaller and more skilled as they get to the later rounds. Bobby Portis, Torrey Craig, Nic Batum, etc become your backup centers… Warriors go with Green at center a lot more… PJ Tucker becomes a stretch 5. I think it’s the opposite… you see us play 5 minutes or so a night without a traditional center in the regular season… in the playoffs it goes to 10+ depending on matchup and how effective Rudy is.

I also am not so sure about 10+. How many teams went 10+? The Bucks had like 8 playable guys.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I also am not so sure about 10+. How many teams went 10+? The Bucks had like 8 playable guys.

Phoenix did with Saric like all year… then shifted based on what was left after injury. Clips for sure did. Denver does a version of this with Jamychal Green. Portland did with RoCo. It’s not something for every series… but in many series it would be a big advantage. Lakers don’t go “small” per se but they try to get to five out by playing AD at center.

Quin hasn’t had anyone nearly as qualified to do this as he does now. Quin is slow to change… but eventually he changes. Remember a few years ago playing Houston he ditched the Favs Rudy starting lineup.

Honestly DL may have saved his job by handing Quin a guy like Jamychal Green and giving him a five out option and then pointing to it later as a sign of Quin being too rigid and limited. Quin had garbage for versatility options on the bench outside of Joe. Niang is a good shooter but not much else there… Favs is a fine backup but has the same limitations that Rudy does and the benefits are far less.

Im very confident that we see small ball lineups during the year and in the playoffs. All the noise points to JZ, Quin, and others being on the same page. It is not hard at all to understand why Quin has been so rigid given the issues with DL the last 18-24 months. Why would you deviate from something that is winning when you are in a power struggle you might lose. Quin also watched Bud change up and win a title.

After the first round of the playoffs you will not see a traditional big as a backup center unless the matchup dictates that it’s necessary.