Marvin Williams trade value at all time high!

[UGLI baby]

You're right, there is-- and I'm pretty sure you're ignoring the data.



Dude, srs? Marv is averaging 10.3PPG and 5.3RPG. His career numbers? 11.0 PPG and 5.1 RPG.

in 2008 (at 21 years of age, mind-you) Marv averaged 14.8 PPG and 5.7 RPG in 80 games at 46% from the field.

You're acting like this season is an anomaly. Umm, nope. This season is pretty much a carbon-copy of 2011-2012 season in Atlanta (in terms of points, rebounds, minutes, role with the team, AND three-point percentage).

The only "anomaly" of Marvin Williams if you look at "10 years of data" is his first season with the Jazz.


This talk about "wow Marvin is performing out of his mind cuz it's a contract year bla ba" is just ridiculous, and statistically unjustifiable.


Should we trade him? If we plan on tanking, then obviously that's the move to make. But let's be intellectually-honest here, and understand that Marvin is 27 years of age, and what he has been doing this season has been replicated in at least one aspect previously in his career. Nothing that he's done has been dramatically "new", in any sense. You have 10 years of data to figure this out.

Holy **** Dal.

You dont understand how the NBA works?

You find stars, THEN add role players, not the other way around.

You don't tie up salary cap space on role players unless you are making a title run. PERIOD.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Holy **** Dal.

You dont understand how the NBA works?

You find stars, THEN add role players, not the other way around.

You don't tie up salary cap space on role players unless you are making a title run. PERIOD.

Where have I ever said that we should re-sign Marv?

 

[Deleted member 848]

That thought process makes sense-- pick-up role players once you've settled on a nice core. My only problem with your post is your inaccurate portrayal of Marvin Williams as a player.

 

[UGLI baby]

Where have I ever said that we should re-sign Marv?

I didnt read your whole post, just saw you were disagreeing with mine, which was all about not resigning Marv.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Should we trade him? If we plan on tanking, then obviously that's the move to make. But let's be intellectually-honest here, and understand that Marvin is 27 years of age, and what he has been doing this season has been replicated in at least one aspect previously in his career. Nothing that he's done has been dramatically "new", in any sense. You have 10 years of data to figure this out.

Re-quoted, just in-case you missed this.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I didnt read your whole post, just saw you were disagreeing with mine, which was all about not resigning Marv.

Yup, no surprise lmao.

 

[Stifle Tower]

It's time to unload Marvin. If he would come back here at a good price then he's worth a look, but at this point I don't think he'll come cheap enough. With a good week of games is it time to unload Marvin, get an asset back, and move the tank forward. If we are going to trade him it's not going to get any better than right now. Agree?

Agree, but due to his high salary, it will be difficult to find a match that makes any sense for both teams. I go back to my post of a few weeks ago; there just aren't many assets contending teams would be willing to give up that a) aren't contributing as much as MW (and for less $), 2) fit under the trade restrictions, 3) wouldn't tie up future cap space.

If Lindsey wants a late 1st, one is likely available for $3M cash or for our 2nd. There may also be better assets offered during the FA period as teams try to clear cap space to sign players. Utah will have a decent amount of space available by simply letting the contracts of MW, RJ, Rush and Biedrins expire.

Also, if the Jazz get a top pick, the rebuild might be "over" in the sense that Lindsey will use any cap space to go out and get good FA's, not salary dumps or vets on the downside of their careers. I'm also not averse to having MW come back. He's really grown into the stretch-4 role. Jazz add a starting SF, shore up their bench with the picks and a FA or two, and this team all of a sudden becomes a playoff contender.

 

[UGLI baby]

That thought process makes sense-- pick-up role players once you've settled on a nice core. My only problem with your post is your inaccurate portrayal of Marvin Williams as a player.

You srs dont think this is the best year of his career?

 

[Deleted member 848]

You srs dont think this is the best year of his career?

Please point out to me, statistically, any profound differences between his current year at Utah and his last year in Atlanta.


To answer your question, I think averaging 14.8 PPG in 80 starts along sides the likes of Horford, Smith, JJ, and Bibby in 2008-- in a year where they took the champs to a 7-game series, is more impressive.

 

[fishonjazz]

Which 'years-upon-years'? "Much worse"?

I said last few games..... not this season


Imo he sucks this year just as much as usual but he has played really good the few games so his stock is high with some people right now

 

[UGLI baby]

Please point out to me, statistically, any profound differences between his current year at Utah and his last year in Atlanta.


To answer your question, I think averaging 14.8 PPG in 80 starts along sides the likes of Horford, Smith, JJ, and Bibby in 2008-- in a year where they took the champs to a 7-game series, is more impressive.

I don't have to point out **** bro.

Marv is a role player playing as a lead player this season.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I said last few games..... not this season


Imo he sucks this year just as much as usual but he has played really good the few games so his stock is high with some people right now

Srs? Uhh dude he's flourished as our team's stretch-4 all season long. These last couple games he's been particularly good, but he's dropping 40% of his threes with quite a few attempts. He's playing good defensively-- and he's been engaged emotionally.

I have no idea what more you could expect from him, given his role on this team this season.

 

[fishonjazz]

Srs? Uhh dude he's flourished as our team's stretch-4 all season long. These last couple games he's been particularly good, but he's dropping 40% of his threes with quite a few attempts. He's playing good defensively-- and he's been engaged emotionally.

I have no idea what more you could expect from him, given his role on this team this season.

You dont think he has been better the last 2 games verse the rest of the season?
Ok

 

[UGLI baby]

Fishonjazz has Alec Burks, UGLI baby has Nik Stauskas, Stoked has Peyton Manning, and DaLOLamon has Marvin Williams.

 

[fishonjazz]

Srs? Uhh dude he's flourished as our team's stretch-4 all season long. These last couple games he's been particularly good, but he's dropping 40% of his threes with quite a few attempts. He's playing good defensively-- and he's been engaged emotionally.

I have no idea what more you could expect from him, given his role on this team this season.

I have been agreeing with you really.......... you were telling ugli that this is not a great year for him, that this year is who he always has been and i agree. Good ol' 10 pt 5 rebound marvin

My point is that he is much worse than his recent play would indicate.

Williams has his 3-pointer flowing and has hit 10 triples in his last two games. He has three straight 20-point games and has averaged 19.0 points, 2.8 3-pointers, and 6.5 rebounds in his four games since returning from a heel injury.

So imo 19.0 points and 6.5 rebounds per game is better than 10 points and 5 rebounds.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I don't have to point out **** bro.

Then you're basically admitting that you have no proof that this year has been Marvin's best-- or that Marvin is doing things this year that he's never done before.

Marv is a role player playing as a lead player this season.

Lmao, lead-player? Marv averaged the lowest mpg in his career last season with the Jazz-- this year is almost exactly-tied with his last season in Atlanta, which was the lowest mpg of his career other than his rookie season at that point in time.

Marv is a role-player who has finally figured out his niche in this league, and is using skills he has previously-had in order to function as a stretch-4, a very prominent trend in the NBA over the past couple of years.

Much of his play is simply due to the steady-time, confidence, and and heightened role that the coaching staff has given him, after the tumultuous role he had on a team/franchise that always expected more out of him as a 2nd seed. Skill-wise, nothing he has done is outside of what we've seen from him before

 

[fishonjazz]

Srs? Uhh dude he's flourished as our team's stretch-4 all season long. He's playing good defensively-- and he's been engaged emotionally.

Then you're basically admitting that you have no proof that this year has been Marvin's best-- or that Marvin is doing things this year that he's never done before.

These quotes seem to contradict each other.

Seems like dala is telling me that marvin is playing particularly well this season, while at the same time telling ugli that this season is not that great for marvin

 

[UGLI baby]

lol @ dalanerd with all of his stats and ****.

Trade Marv Darft Wuggins.

 

[Deleted member 848]

You dont think he has been better the last 2 games verse the rest of the season?
Ok

That's not what I said. He is dropping 5 3s a game these past couple days, which is a rate better than any shooter has ever averaged over a mere month in the NBA.


I'm just saying that three-point accuracy, off of decent attempts is something that Marv has done already this season. From time-to-time he'll have a particularly good stretch of games-- just like every other NBA player ever.

I have been agreeing with you really.......... you were telling ugli that this is not a great year for him, that this year is who he always has been and i agree. Good ol' 10 pt 5 rebound marvin

Good. It's pretty hard to ignore the fact tbh.

My point is that he is much worse than his recent play would indicate.

Williams has his 3-pointer flowing and has hit 10 triples in his last two games. He has three straight 20-point games and has averaged 19.0 points, 2.8 3-pointers, and 6.5 rebounds in his four games since returning from a heel injury.

So imo 19.0 points and 6.5 rebounds per game is better than 10 points and 5 rebounds.

I don't think any-one is arguing that. Every player can break-out for a week at a time. My point was just that Marv hasn't been "pretty bad" for most of this season, like you said. Marv has been pretty good actually, is a pretty big reason (at a distant 2nd to Burke) as to why are offense isn't as hideous, and that these past couple games of his are just bonkers quite frankly.

 

[Deleted member 848]

These quotes seem to contradict each other.

Seems like dala is telling me that marvin is playing particularly well this season, while at the same time telling ugli that this season is not that great for marvin

Umm nope. I'm saying that he has played well as a stretch-4 this season --> been done before (see his 2011-2012 season).

I then said he's been a good defender. Pls refer to his entire career. He's always been a good defender, especially on those Atlanta Hawks teams that would play 100% switch defense. Marv would guard multiple positions all the time.

No contradiction. You can play well in a season-- and it still doesn't have to be your best, necessarily. There are different ways to be a good player in the NBA.


Vince Carter has been playing well with Dallas-- he isn't averaging >20ppg anymore, but does that mean that his recent performance is 'bad'? Nope. He's sound defensively, plays smart team-ball, and stretches the floor surprisingly well (moreso in previous seasons than this season).