I posted a peer reviewed research article that examined 18 cases. Look back in this thread, it's there somewhere. It said on average PER drops by 5 points, I think.
Max Out Matthews?
- Thread starter Saint Cy of JFC
- Start date
I posted a peer reviewed research article that examined 18 cases. Look back in this thread, it's there somewhere. It said on average PER drops by 5 points, I think.
Ok, I missed it. I might be too lazy to look it up, but that sounds about right.
The cases I looked at showed quite a few that after the injury their ppg and other stats dropped significantly... and my that I mean generally 6ppg or more. A 5 PER drop sounds about in that area if they actually improved in other ways as they had to change their games.
It had other stuff too. Like games played after recovery and performance down the road. Basically, it doesn't look good for Matthews. I think he can still be a shooter though. Like I said, he might just end up being Raja Bell towards the end of his career.
As a side note, I ruptured my right achilles playing church ball right around the time Kobe and Marvin did. Tuesday night was the first time I returned to church ball. I ruptured my left achilles. I'm retiring.
Serious? That sucks.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I feel bad for Wes. Genuinely likable guy who beat the odds. Never thought he was bound to return though. And as unfortunate as it is, anything that hurts Portland helps Utah.
I hope he recovers, but I don't think he'll ever be the same player. Said all along that I want Carroll back, and I'm still hoping for either him or Danny Green. They should both be cheaper than Matthews (pre injury) and still very good fits for what the Jazz need.
I hope he recovers, but I don't think he'll ever be the same player. Said all along that I want Carroll back, and I'm still hoping for either him or Danny Green. They should both be cheaper than Matthews (pre injury) and still very good fits for what the Jazz need.
Yeah, but a positive to signing Wes is that it allows us to continue the focus on developing the young guys as he recovers. If Wes comes back, he can play spot minutes as a shooter. By his 2nd year we will know how much game he was able to retain and we could increase his role or just keep him as a shooter.
No thanks to Matthews now for me.
He was billed as potentially a great lock down defender someone you can throw to defend the likes of Harden, Curry, etc. If this injury inhibits his ability to do that then 1/2 his value is gone IMO.
I think over time Hood can be just as good a 3pt shooter and I'd rather bet on his improving defense than paying $$$ to bet on Matthew's injury reoccurring.
He was billed as potentially a great lock down defender someone you can throw to defend the likes of Harden, Curry, etc. If this injury inhibits his ability to do that then 1/2 his value is gone IMO.
I think over time Hood can be just as good a 3pt shooter and I'd rather bet on his improving defense than paying $$$ to bet on Matthew's injury reoccurring.
I thought I might have done this. I came straight down after shutting down my opponent. Felt a weird sensation in my heel. I thought oh ****! Got it checked and Xrays were negative.
Bone bruise. No BB for 6 weeks.
Can you tell me more about what happened on both your injuries?
Twin Towers
Well-Known Member
I didn't want Matthews before the injury to be honest. I love him as a player but he will be 29 when next season starts. I know that is not old but it is for this team.
We need guys that will be in their prime when our young guys are ready to contend. Not on the downfall of their careers. Add in his injury and I don't think he fits at all.
I wouldn't go after any starting caliber players that are over the age of 27-28 to be honest.
We need guys that will be in their prime when our young guys are ready to contend. Not on the downfall of their careers. Add in his injury and I don't think he fits at all.
I wouldn't go after any starting caliber players that are over the age of 27-28 to be honest.
candrew
Well-Known Member
I hate to say it but the age thing did concern me from the beginning and now this injury has really put a wet blanket on the prospects of Matthews returning to Utah. Jazz should probably look elsewhere.
First one was about an hour or more into playing. Ball was being checked in at the top of the key and I was trying to break away from my guy. Dropped to the floor. Feared it was my achilles. Got up and confirmed. Complete rupture, had it repaired surgically and then moved out of state 3 weeks later. This most recent time was my first time back. Played a few games. Was moving on the top of the key to get open for a pass. Dropped to the floor. Knew again immediately, unfortunately. This time I'm not doing surgery.
Your team can't consist of guys all in their prime. That is not affordable or realistic. Can you name one Championship team that is a group of guys who are all within 1-3 years of each other?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Agree. I thought Carroll or Green were more realistic possibilities. Carroll for his close relationship with Quin and Green because Pops has been on him a lot. With Green, I think he would accept a backup role playing 25 mins or so. I read a recent interview where he said the heavy minutes (31/per) are difficult. Carroll not so sure he'd want to be a sub. We'd probably have to make Buirks the 6th man. Would probably want either of those guys over Matthews, but if we don't get either, then Wes could still be a good option.
This is a great point. Wes spoke highly of Utah when he left. Jazz could afford to bring him back slowly. And there would be absolutely NO problem with him being a sub playing spot minutes next season as he regains his health. Not sure how much Tomic will demand, but split the cap space we could have WITHOUT releasing Booker between Matthews and Tomic. Wes gets a 4yr deal with the last two being team options (and a small buyout). I think Matthews probably realizes his starting days are over.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Exactly. And outside of his playing ability, Matthews was really praised for his leadership in the locker room. Jazz need some vets. IINM, after the trade deadline, I think we became the youngest team in the league (Philly dropped slightly below us with their acquisitions and us getting rid of Old Man Novak). Everyone spoke very highly of Steve, even though he hardly played. Signing Wes would be like making a deal to add 3PT shooting at the trade deadline next season (he likely starts playing around Nov/Dec). If he can eventually give us 15/per off the bench, that would be terrific. If not, well, that's why the Jazz would need to have team options for at least 2 years of his contract.
I'm all for going after other FA's first. But our chances of getting Carroll, Middleton or Green might be very slim. I agree with Cy's points re: Matthews.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Pp
Wes is a world class *** kicker. He will still have one good leg with which to kick ***.
I read the Achilles injury article that cy posted. Most of the players were either terrible no name types or guys at the end of their careers. Wes may never be the exact same player he was but he's tough, smart and motivated... He may come back and learn how to be just as effective.
Just like Stifle mentioned he is probably one of the top ten locker room guys in the league that I would want for our team. That stuff matters. We didn't really have room in our rotation for Wes and burks to both play 30 per night anyway... Add in hood and maybe a draft pick and there is no way to make it work and keep everyone happy.
I think giving healthy wes a 15M per year guaranteed contract for 4 years was more risky than giving broken Wes a 4 year 30M deal with the last two being team options.
Horny didn't tear his Achilles but during the finals runs he was on one leg and still guarding Jordan part time and contributing on offense. Smart motivated hard workers figure out ways to beat the odds.
Wes is a world class *** kicker. He will still have one good leg with which to kick ***.
I read the Achilles injury article that cy posted. Most of the players were either terrible no name types or guys at the end of their careers. Wes may never be the exact same player he was but he's tough, smart and motivated... He may come back and learn how to be just as effective.
Just like Stifle mentioned he is probably one of the top ten locker room guys in the league that I would want for our team. That stuff matters. We didn't really have room in our rotation for Wes and burks to both play 30 per night anyway... Add in hood and maybe a draft pick and there is no way to make it work and keep everyone happy.
I think giving healthy wes a 15M per year guaranteed contract for 4 years was more risky than giving broken Wes a 4 year 30M deal with the last two being team options.
Horny didn't tear his Achilles but during the finals runs he was on one leg and still guarding Jordan part time and contributing on offense. Smart motivated hard workers figure out ways to beat the odds.
Crawlnstall
Well-Known Member
I really like Matthews. Loved him in Utah. I grew up in Oregon and all my Blazer fans love him too, I always hated that we let him go. If the Jazz can get him on the cheap I think it'd be a great idea, but I doubt that will happen. He is a hard working class act guy. Really hope he recovers well
LifeOnaPlate
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear this about my man Wes. The one that got away. The one I felt the worst about when I heard he was leaving town.