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Obama supports Mosque

Clutch, remember Jesus taught in Matthew 3:18 to "love thy neighbor as you love thyself" and your love doesn't seem very apparent right now. Are you sure you're Christian, or are you just going because your mom does? If so, come talk to me in my office someday, I'll give you a blessing.

-Craig
 
I love how some people in here will basically trip over themselves in an effort to show how "PC" they are.

It's a horrible idea to let a Mosque be built near the 9-11 site for quite a few reasons and non of them stem from hatred or bigotry. They stem from common sense:

-First of all, it is common practice in the history of Islam to build Mosques on sites of conquest. I could bombard you with links backing up this fact but it's pretty easy to find for yourself if you'd like to take the time. Knowing this fact makes me wonder about the intent on why the people pushing for this mosque want to put it so close to the 9-11 site. Coincidence? Maybe, but IMO, not likely.

-While it might be the right of the Islam religion to put a mosque so close to the site, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. What about the sensitivities involved with those who lost loved ones that day? Why don't the Islamic folks pushing for this see what a hurftul issue this could be to many people and take the higher road?
 
Who cares about the constitution?

Who cares about what's right?

You people make great points, but they're all ideological. Quit w/your philosophy class nonsense and go back to simple high school. If you want to maintain power you do what's popular, not what's right or in accordance with the law.


It's not necessarily scoring points, it's losing points that's going to happen by his stance on this. The vast majority could care less about "freedom of religion" and being "politically correct."

The media spins this as evil Muslim Nazi/Communist/antiChrist Obama is disrespecting those victims of 9/11. I don't think most Americans will care much about freedom of religion as much as the message that's been spewed that we're allowing a Mosque to be built near ground zero. History has proven time after time again that the people of this country don't give a rats *** about the constitution depending on which media source they're glued to. Red Scare anyone? I thought allowing blacks to not ride in the back of the bus was going to destroy this country?

I love how so many people are calling me a religious bigot despite me not even taking a side. I've only merely commented on how unpopular of a move this might be. If only you knew my true opinion. But that's okay, I'll allow you more "tolerant" posters to tell me how I should act while observing you acting completely different. thanks guys. You bring even more substance to the old saying of, "Do as I say, not as I do."

I hope you're not saying I called you a religious bigot. I did no such thing. I haven't even tried to imply that you are not tolerant. Just as you are trying to make a point about how this will affect his popularity, I am trying to make the point that his popularity should not be a concern in this type of issue. I also felt like you were under the impression that Obama authorized this mosque to be built. Maybe you were just baiting people into expressing thier opinion through an intentional misrepresentation? So I was trying to clear that up.
 
I love how some people in here will basically trip over themselves in an effort to show how "PC" they are.

It's a horrible idea to let a Mosque be built near the 9-11 site for quite a few reasons and non of them stem from hatred or bigotry. They stem from common sense:

-First of all, it is common practice in the history of Islam to build Mosques on sites of conquest. I could bombard you with links backing up this fact but it's pretty easy to find for yourself if you'd like to take the time. Knowing this fact makes me wonder about the intent on why the people pushing for this mosque want to put it so close to the 9-11 site. Coincidence? Maybe, but IMO, not likely.

-While it might be the right of the Islam religion to put a mosque so close to the site, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. What about the sensitivities involved with those who lost loved ones that day? Why don't the Islamic folks pushing for this see what a hurftul issue this could be to many people and take the higher road?

Is stating your support for individual rights and religious freedom an attempt to prove how PC you are? After struggling to understand what PC actually means I looked into it a little bit. I still struggle to understand what it means and I have an even more difficult time understanding what people are talking about when they throw the term around. Originally, 20 years ago or so, I thought it meant accurate communication not intended to create bias. I realize now it almost means the exact opposite of that. But what the hell is it with conservatives calling anyone who asks for understanding or expresses a desire for tolerance PC? I just don't get it. I haven't got the slightest fear of not being considered PC.

People’s irrational fears and hurt feelings shouldn't even be considered in this issue. If someone who lost a loved one in 9-11 is hurt by the building of a mosque I'm sorry, but their loved one was killed by a terrorist flying a hijacked plane into a building, not as a result of a mosque being constructed, so to me their objections are misguided and irrelevant.

I like how you phrase the last part, "...it might be the right of the Islam religion..." The Islam religion has no rights at all. Only individuals have rights. The individual who owns the property has the right to allow a mosque to be built, or a 7-11, or an adult magazine shop, or a Deseret Book store. Why? Because it's private ****ing property and the American public, the president and people who lost loved ones on 9-11 don't have a say, which is just the way it should be.
 
Why don't the Japanese rush to build a religious Shinto "cultural" center near the Arizona memorial? You know, freedom of religion and individual rights... I think the issue is sensitivity. Tact. Common sense. Even if you have a right to do something doesn't necessarily mean you should, right?

Why are those Muslims so insistent on building there? Don't they want to get along w/their fellow New Yorkers? Don't they want to avoid the bad pub? Don't they fear their actions being used by radical terrorists as propaganda?

Why are so many people opposed to them building this?

Why are conservatives so against this issue? Aren't they usually the ones all up in arms when the government interferes with religion anyway? Aren't they usually the ones angry when the government interferes with private property?
 
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So if a Christian nut-job blows up an abortion clinic in (pick a city) Detroit, should my church (LDS) not be able to build a church/temple two blocks away because my church opposes elective abortions? That would be ridiculous.

It would be one thing if the leader of the proposed mosque had anything to do with Al Quaeda, but as far as I know, no one has proved--or even claimed--any connection besides the fact that they are both Muslim.
 
So if a Christian nut-job blows up an abortion clinic in (pick a city) Detroit, should my church (LDS) not be able to build a church/temple two blocks away because my church opposes elective abortions? That would be ridiculous.

It would be one thing if the leader of the proposed mosque had anything to do with Al Quaeda, but as far as I know, no one has proved--or even claimed--any connection besides the fact that they are both Muslim.

I don't think that's a valid comparison at all. Just sayin.
 
Why don't the Japanese rush to build a religious Shinto "cultural" center near the Arizona memorial? You know, freedom of religion and individual rights... I think the issue is sensitivity. Tact. Common sense. Even if you have a right to do something doesn't necessarily mean you should, right?

Why are conservatives so against this issue? Aren't they usually the ones all up in arms when the government interferes with religion anyway? Aren't they usually the ones angry when the government interferes with private property?

icon_greenA.png
USS Arizona Memorial
1 Arizona Memorial Rd
Honolulu, HI 96818


camera_dr1.png

1.Head east on Arizona Memorial Rd210 ft
2.Turn right at HI-99 E/Kamehameha Hwy1.5 mi
3.Take the Interstate H1 E ramp to Honolulu0.3 mi
4.Merge onto I-H-1 E5.6 mi
5.Take exit 21A for Hawai 61 toward Pali Hwy0.2 mi
6.Keep left at the fork, follow signs for HI-61 N/Kailua190 ft
7.Turn left at HI-61 N2.0 mi
8.Turn right at Puiwa Rd Destination will be on the right
0.1 mi

icon_greenB.png
Daijingu Temple of Hawaii
61 Puiwa Road
Honolulu, HI 96817-1128

There are several Shinto Shrines much closer than this temple
 
icon_greenA.png
USS Arizona Memorial
1 Arizona Memorial Rd
Honolulu, HI 96818


camera_dr1.png

1.Head east on Arizona Memorial Rd210 ft
2.Turn right at HI-99 E/Kamehameha Hwy1.5 mi
3.Take the Interstate H1 E ramp to Honolulu0.3 mi
4.Merge onto I-H-1 E5.6 mi
5.Take exit 21A for Hawai 61 toward Pali Hwy0.2 mi
6.Keep left at the fork, follow signs for HI-61 N/Kailua190 ft
7.Turn left at HI-61 N2.0 mi
8.Turn right at Puiwa Rd Destination will be on the right
0.1 mi

icon_greenB.png
Daijingu Temple of Hawaii
61 Puiwa Road
Honolulu, HI 96817-1128

There are several Shinto Shrines much closer than this temple

10 miles away?

How big is Hawaii anyway? For all I know that could be on the other side of the island.

When was it built? Are Shinto Shrines commonly built on conquered lands? What about LDS temples? Would it be of good taste to build a temple two blocks away from the Mountain Meadows Massacre? Only what... 100 people were killed there? Not even a thousand. Plus, that was over 100 years ago. And it was a relatively isolated event, not a series of attacks, right? Even still, wouldn't this be seen as bad taste?

Just because I have a right to do something doesn't mean I should.

I have the right to go to your conferences and yell at your leaders and members. I could say some pretty nasty things. But should I do this?
I have the right to express myself at Jazz games, does that mean I should wear an eye patch when D-Fish plays?

Why aren't these Muslims there at that Mosque declaring RIGHT NOW how horrible Osama is, how horrible of an attack that was, and how Islam condemns such actions? Why aren't they working w/their NY brothers to find a solution? Why aren't New Yorkers offering alternative solutions instead of taking a page out of the GOP book and saying, "NO?" Clear up some land so they can build whatever they want.

Why is it always US against THOSE OTHERS?

Personally, even on the most biased media outlets I haven't seen anything written denying them THE RIGHT to build this thing. Even Hannity I don't think has denied them that. However, the question is SHOULD?

As I said before, just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean you should...
 
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They have every right to build it there I just think they should reconsider the location because IMO it is bad taste to build it there. Again, they have the Constitutional right to build it there, I just think it is in bad taste if they do. Just this Conservatives point of view.
 
Here's the thing, people are making a false connection between this Muslim center and what happened on 9-11. The two aren’t connected. Muslim terrorists attacked the U.S., targeting the symbolic World Trade Center as our global economic heart and the Pentagon as our military brain. Christianity was not attacked by Islam. A holy war is not underway. This Muslim center is not in bad taste. It is not insensitive. People taking offense obviously feel that the U.S. was attacked by the entire Muslim world and see Islam itself as the enemy. That's just plain old wrong.

I joined the Navy in June of 2000. I was in the Navy when the USS Cole was attacked in Yemen. I was in my first "C" school and one of my instructors had transferred there from that ship, having been aboard when it happened. In my class were two members of the Bahrain Navy, Sammy and Fassel, being instructed in the use of a weapon system that some ships we sold them were equipped with. Also in my class was the son of a native Iranian, Petty Officer Fhatie, but he had grown up in the U.S. We were all in the same class on 9-11. I take a certain amount of pride in the fact that these foreign, Muslim sailors were treated exactly the same before 9-11 as they were after. I stood a watch with Fhatie shortly after 9-11 and he said that his father knew that the U.S. was going to go after someone, he worried that it would be Iran, but accepted the fact that someone was going to pay for attacking us. Petty Officer Fhatie himself was prepared to do his job, no matter what that meant. I deployed for the first time in March of 2003, before we began the war with Iraq, but it was clear that we would likely attack them soon. I spent a few months temporary duty working in the shipboard security department. One of the MAs (Masters-at-Arms, or Navy cops) was a tall very well-spoken black man. He was funny because he sounded like a guy that had gone to Oxford, but would sometimes awkwardly throw out hip phrases like "Fo-shizzle" and the like. I was having lunch with him one day and he told me that he was Muslim, then asked me not to tell anyone else. Overseas, during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, I visited Bahrain, Dubai, Kuala Lompur, Malaysia and Singapore, all of which have large Muslim populations if not an overwhelming majority of Muslims. Our big bad U.S. Navy ships pulled right into their harbors (was that in bad taste?). Our sometimes well mannered, sometimes not so well mannered sailors strode right into their streets, speaking only English, sometimes using U.S. dollars instead of Dinar, Dirham or Ringgits. Walking around piss *** drunk, being loud and arrogant all the time. Yet not once was I ever mistreated, cheated or insulted. Instead I was greeted with smiles, called "my friend" and welcomed with good manners. I deployed again in 2005, visited many of the same places and was treated exactly the same as the first time.

Here we are throwing a childish temper tantrum over a Muslim center a few blocks, not on top of, a few blocks away from "ground zero." How petty, how small, how stupid? It's embarassing to me.
 
Just two weeks ago, many conservatives in the media were clamoring for someone to defend the Constitution from Obama, and now he's the one defending it.

Irony.
 
-First of all, it is common practice in the history of Islam to build Mosques on sites of conquest. I could bombard you with links backing up this fact but it's pretty easy to find for yourself if you'd like to take the time. Knowing this fact makes me wonder about the intent on why the people pushing for this mosque want to put it so close to the 9-11 site. Coincidence? Maybe, but IMO, not likely.

What, precisely, was conquered? Do Muslim suddenly control the Twin Towers site, and no one told me? What if American Muslims wanted to build a memorial to the American Muslims who were in the twoer and died in the attacks? Good taste, bad taste? How many churches do you think Christians hae built on/near former sites of importance to conquered people? You are allowing your fear to override your intelligence.

-While it might be the right of the Islam religion to put a mosque so close to the site, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. What about the sensitivities involved with those who lost loved ones that day? Why don't the Islamic folks pushing for this see what a hurftul issue this could be to many people and take the higher road?

Tell me how you fit the right of Muslims to mourn the Muslims killed by terrorists into this rant.

After struggling to understand what PC actually means I looked into it a little bit. I still struggle to understand what it means and I have an even more difficult time understanding what people are talking about when they throw the term around.

The terms "politically correct", much like "activist judge", has no meaning beyond as a slur term.

Why don't the Japanese rush to build a religious Shinto "cultural" center near the Arizona memorial?

Are they in need of a cultural center in that area? If so, let them build one.

Why are those Muslims so insistent on building there? Don't they want to get along w/their fellow New Yorkers? Don't they want to avoid the bad pub? Don't they fear their actions being used by radical terrorists as propaganda?

I think the speeches of Palin and Gingrich are much more effective in rallying terrorists that a building that, merely by existing, will show America is not the enemy of Muslims.

Why are so many people opposed to them building this?

Fear.

Here we are throwing a childish temper tantrum over a Muslim center a few blocks, not on top of, a few blocks away from "ground zero." How petty, how small, how stupid? It's embarassing to me.

When the reputation process was introduced on this board, I thought I would never bother to use it. You sir, have just earned my very first usage of it. That was a very impressive post. Thank you.
 
Keep in mind there's a mosque about the same distance from ground zero as the one being planned already (and has been there for about 40 years) - yet after the attacks, people were forging a protest that it should be torn down?? So old one's are ok, but new ones are not? How does that make sense?
 
So if a Christian nut-job blows up an abortion clinic in (pick a city) Detroit, should my church (LDS) not be able to build a church/temple two blocks away because my church opposes elective abortions? That would be ridiculous.

It would be one thing if the leader of the proposed mosque had anything to do with Al Quaeda, but as far as I know, no one has proved--or even claimed--any connection besides the fact that they are both Muslim.

I don't think that's a valid comparison at all. Just sayin.

Why not, exactly?
 
This sounds a lot like that Westboro baptist church that protests at funerals of fallen soldiers. Do they have a right to be there and do that? Absolutely. Is it in poor taste? Not according to some on here.
 
This sounds a lot like that Westboro baptist church that protests at funerals of fallen soldiers. Do they have a right to be there and do that? Absolutely. Is it in poor taste? Not according to some on here.

Who?
 
Yeah, maybe that came out wrong. I think what people are talking about on here is the right to do something versus the sensibility of doing it. They certainly have the right to build the mosque. But like it or not, the religion they practice is blamed with killing 3000 people just up the road from where they want to build. Throw in the idea that they build mosques in areas that they have "conquered" and you get a nice controversy going.
 
Yeah, maybe that came out wrong. I think what people are talking about on here is the right to do something versus the sensibility of doing it. They certainly have the right to build the mosque. But like it or not, the religion they practice is blamed with killing 3000 people just up the road from where they want to build. Throw in the idea that they build mosques in areas that they have "conquered" and you get a nice controversy going.

Islam didn't kill 3000+ people, 19 Islamic hijackers did. Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.
 
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