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Game Thread Oct 27, 2023 07:30PM MT: Jazz vs. Clippers

Added to Calendar: 10-27-23

HeatCheck said:
Sadly I didn't get to watch the first 2 games due to the ridiculous League Pass blackout rules where the Kings (what?) and Clippers (the hell??) are the 2 teams blacked out in my area.

Just based off the boxscore can one of you kind blokes please tell me what's going on with Kessler and Agbaji? It's only 2 games so understand it will take Hardy time to figure out the lineups. I had a feeling Kessler was going to lose minutes due to fit issues with Collins. What is going on with Ochai? I know he's not much of a facilitator type. Is that the reason his minutes seem lowered in order to get more playmaking/ballhandling on the floor?
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Quite simply with kessler it was fit and matchup related (plus KO was amazing last night) and with Ochai its just that he hasn't been very good. Wasn't very good in SL pre season or the two games this season. He has zero steals or blocks so far, is shooting 33% from the field (only 25% from inside the three point line lol. and two of his makes were dunks) and also doesn't have an assist yet this season. He needs to play better to get more minutes probably. Plus we have a huge bunch of dudes at the guard line vying for minutes with little separation. Add in that clarkson is a vet who just signed a new contract and there you have it.
 
Release the Kraken said:
See and I thought they got lucky, particularly the way that Paul George kept getting bailed out and going to the charity stripe.
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We owned them on the boards (particularly offensive) and shot pretty well. George played out of his mind and hit 15 FTs when he should have missed a few. The Clippers tend to play us well so I feel lucky we won; we're definitely the younger team who has more to figure out. They're the team with the three-headed veteran monster and we're the team with new moving parts.

Random statement by me but since I'm a Collins homer: I think Collins is going to settle down at some point and start being more efficient. He scored in every way imaginable: in transition, had a three, scored off a bit of a broken play and his block was nice. He seems to be alert on offense. Here's to some better shooting from three, but at least he's working hard out there.
 
HeatCheck said:
Sadly I didn't get to watch the first 2 games due to the ridiculous League Pass blackout rules where the Kings (what?) and Clippers (the hell??) are the 2 teams blacked out in my area.

Just based off the boxscore can one of you kind blokes please tell me what's going on with Kessler and Agbaji? It's only 2 games so understand it will take Hardy time to figure out the lineups. I had a feeling Kessler was going to lose minutes due to fit issues with Collins. What is going on with Ochai? I know he's not much of a facilitator type. Is that the reason his minutes seem lowered in order to get more playmaking/ballhandling on the floor?
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Collins is more productive than Kessler atm . In 2 games kessler had 15pts/12reb/1 blk. Collins otoh 28pts/23reb/1 blk. With this we can bring in KOs much needed playmaking and shooting. Kessler only plays 3-4 minutes in the 4th. Could be his minutes for awhile
 
kabenac said:
We owned them on the boards (particularly offensive) and shot pretty well. George played out of his mind and hit 15 FTs when he should have missed a few. The Clippers tend to play us well so I feel lucky we won; we're definitely the younger team who has more to figure out. They're the team with the three-headed veteran monster and we're the team with new moving parts.

Random statement by me but since I'm a Collins homer: I think Collins is going to settle down at some point and start being more efficient. He scored in every way imaginable: in transition, had a three, scored off a bit of a broken play and his block was nice. He seems to be alert on offense. Here's to some better shooting from three, but at least he's working hard out there.
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No I agree that Collins has been a pleasant surprise so far. He was frustrated in the Atlanta Star System and I understand why. He did everything we could ask of him last night including going 4-4 from the line.

I guess a case could be made that we won it at the stripe going a whopping 20 for 22 (only Clarkson and Sexton missed a free throw). PG went 15-15 but their team missed six of their 28 attempts. Pretty impressive for us this early in the season imo.
 
Nice win. Nice game from our guys. Today I believe. We'll see tomorrow. I want George promptly thrown up to the flames without too much care about anything, I suspect dude can handle the good and the bad and grow up from there.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
This is a pretty cool quote from Hardy. Our rotations looked a lot better this game. It was almost like we were playing front court pairs vs back court pairs with Collins and KO playing next to each other and Lauri and Kessler playing next to each other.
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I like how he said it takes humility, something that was truly lacking from the Don/Rudy era top to bottom. Same roster, same coach, same game plan, same attitude, and of course we got the same result each time.

Quin was a good coach and Don/Rudy were great players, but they truly did not want change their ways and the FO was happy to oblige by doing nothing as well. IMO, it was extreme arrogance and lack of humility that was most frustrating. No one even tried to change their ways, they would rather embarrass themselves doing the same thing.

Feels like Hardy will do anything/try anything to win and that makes a big difference. Unfortunately that means Kessler has to play less minutes. Maybe that will change against a team with no small ball. This is still very much a roster of misfits.
 
KqWIN said:
I like how he said it takes humility, something that was truly lacking from the Don/Rudy era top to bottom. Same roster, same coach, same game plan, same attitude, and of course we got the same result each time.

Quin was a good coach and Don/Rudy were great players, but they truly did not want change their ways and the FO was happy to oblige by doing nothing as well. IMO, it was extreme arrogance and lack of humility that was most frustrating. No one even tried to change their ways, they would rather embarrass themselves doing the same thing.

Feels like Hardy will do anything/try anything to win and that makes a big difference. Unfortunately that means Kessler has to play less minutes. Maybe that will change against a team with no small ball. This is still very much a roster of misfits.
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So much this… rather than make adjustments they’d try and bend data to prove there isn’t a problem. “Do it better or harder” isn’t always an answer.
 
That was an impressive win. I thought they would lose. Fortunately, I did a B.S. statement that they would be 5-5 so I could say I believed them but honestly I thought they stink big time and they showed me that there is something there. Credit Hardy and the players to do whatever it takes. I am sorry Kessler is getting less minutes and Sexton is not finishing games but they are still helping the team. Both of those guys just add the three ball at a high level and things will change for you.
 
Great win. Didn't like the 4th qtr pairing of THT and Keynote, when they sent Keynote to the corner and had Tucker bring up the ball. Clips got back in it then.
 
Impressive win. Great team effort, everyone played solid, even if some guys made sloppy plays or stupid turnovers they made up for it on another occasions. Nobody has really played out of their mind, yes, they hit some tough shots sometimes but it wasn't like the Clips fans say in the quotes "Utah shooting incredible blah blah". Nobody was really on fire.
 
Belated thoughts:

- I really liked what I saw from Keyonte. Maybe he's trying to be on his best behavior since he's a rookie and just carving out a spot in the rotation, but right now he plays so differently than our other guards, it's like a breath of fresh air. He's very quick but isn't trying to go 100mph all the time or overdribble his way inside. He seems to have a knack for picking his spots, which will serve him well when his minutes inevitably increase. Keyonte may not be a 100% natural PG either, but he probably has the most "feel" for the position out of everyone in the guard rotation. Happy with this guy so far.

- Collins is playing well too. His defensive intensity comes and goes, but that's nothing new. He was never known as a defender in Atlanta. Offensively, he's been a faultless role player so far. The shot isn't really falling consistently, but it's clear defenses still pay attention to him when he's on the perimeter. That alone is a very important upgrade in the frontcourt rotation.

- This game was a great example of why Dunn isn't the "great defender" many people think he is. A great defender can put the clamps on a guy without fouling and taking undisciplined, unnecessary risks. Dunn almost lost the game by fouling jump shooters at the worst possible time. You can't make those rookie type mistakes anymore when you're almost 30. Kris can be useful when he plays within himself, but that doesn't happen often enough for him to be a starting PG.

- Kessler seems to have lost 50% of his confidence along with some of his minutes. I don't think his Team USA experience was a good one. He rarely saw the floor and Kerr essentially treated him as an end-of-bench stiff who can't be involved in the offense. Stuff like that may leave a mark on a young player who's relentlessly self-critical as it is. Walker hit an early three (he shocked me by even taking it, that's how off he's seemed lately) but was like a ghost after that. Offensively, he's too easy to figure out and neutralize right now, and he must know it.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Agreed, surprised to see comments of people down on him. He looks way better to me this year.
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That body definitely looks better. Best body in the nba?
Unfortunately no assists, no steals, no blocks, and poor shooting (1-4 from three) are not good things. His advanced stats dont look great either. Small sample size but he probably needs to do more good stuff while looking good out there.
Edit: basketball reference must have just updated his numbers. he does have 2 assist, a steal and a block. 33% from the field and 25% from three and zero free throw attempts with poor advanced stats is the issue. He has been rebounding ok though.

And again, small sample size. I think i was the first and only one hyping Ochai early last year. Gonna have to play really good to get minutes with all the bodies in the logjam. needs to start knocking down threes.
 
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fishonjazz said:
That body definitely looks better. Best body in the nba?
Unfortunately no assists, no steals, no blocks, and poor shooting are not good things. His advanced stats dont look great either. Small sample size but he probably needs to do more good stuff while looking good out there.
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For a the role that Ochai plays, I really don't care about counting stats. I also wouldn't worry about advanced stats 2 games in.

He is playing better defense, making guys more uncomfortable, and playing better help defense. He's also getting in the mix for rebounds and just looking much more comfortable within his role on both sides of the ball.
 
fishonjazz said:
That body definitely looks better. Best body in the nba?
Unfortunately no assists, no steals, no blocks, and poor shooting (1-4 from three) are not good things. His advanced stats dont look great either. Small sample size but he probably needs to do more good stuff while looking good out there.
Edit: basketball reference must have just updated his numbers. he does have 2 assist, a steal and a block. 33% from the field and 25% from three and zero free throw attempts with poor advanced stats is the issue. He has been rebounding ok though.

And again, small sample size. I think i was the first and only one hyping Ochai early last year.
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Thanks for the replies. If he's not shooting it well then maybe he doesn't offer anything more than what they can get from Dunn and THT? At least they offer some level of playmaking and are also pretty good defenders? Hardy was using Ochai as a backup SF during preseason but the minutes are hard to come in the frontcourt especially with Collins on the roster. I can see why Olynyk's playmaking skillset might be a little more valued at this point too. Just thinking out loud.

@SoberasHotRod Agreed. We're only two games in and fully expect Agbaji's minutes to increase.

I just asked specifically about Walker and Ochai since the org seemed to be so high on them at the end of last season but obviously the minutes haven't quite been there for them the first 2 games.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
For a the role that Ochai plays, I really don't care about counting stats. I also wouldn't worry about advanced stats 2 games in.

He is playing better defense, making guys more uncomfortable, and playing better help defense. He's also getting in the mix for rebounds and just looking much more comfortable within his role on both sides of the ball.
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ya and in one game we were blown out and the other game he didn't get many minutes for whatever reason. Maybe Hardy cares if the ball goes in/about counting stats? Idk.

Last year he got 20 minutes per game as a rookie who coach wouldn't even play for a big chunk of the year.
This season he is getting 16 per game. If he is looking great and playing better then its a strange move by hardy to play him less.
 
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