Our Big 3?

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

With Rudy being primarily a defensive player, I think the Jazz need two more impact players. They need Donovan and Player X to be able to score 30 pts on any given night. Then they need someone who can score maybe 20 pts. on any given night. Rudy can then chip in his normal 14/11, and someone like Ingles or Crowder can fill in the rest. The bench can be filled by FAs.

It's possible that Exum can become a 16 pt. scorer and be that third guy. He has the talent to do it even if he's not developed yet. Even still, the Jazz would need someone at one of the forward spots to be a versatile, 3-level scorer who can create his own looks and fill it up.

I actually think the Jazz are looking at Julius Randle. Even though he isn't a 3-pt shooter, he's a physical 6'8" forward who can create with the ball and get downhill. The Jazz might think they can develop his game a little more.

Otherwise, the Jazz would be hoping to draft a guard or forward with significant offensive talent. Guys like Anfernee Simons, Dzanan Musa, and possibly a project like Isaac Bonga are worth a look. Kris Wilkes could possibly become a 15-pt scorer in a few years, but he might not do much more than that.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

When it comes to the Big 3 solution, is there anybody who we really, really like in the lottery? Mitchell, Crowder, Ingles, Gobert and O'Neal are locked in for 2 years after this one (until at least summer 2020). We have the ability to keep Exum long term as well. Burks is the rather large, expendable contract that expires after next year.

If there is a player we like well enough, I'm all for using Burks to take back a bad contract that expires in 2020 if we can get into the top 10. Is Porter Jr, either of the Bridges, Jaren Jackson, Carter Jr, Doncic worth taking a bad contract that goes a year longer than Burks?

Is there anybody we are that sold on? I feel like we have the financial flexibility if we believe in a pick more than a gamble like Jabari. Because really, Jabari making $19 the next 4 years could be worse than somebody like Noah making $19 the next two. Jabari could screw up keeping everybody together if he ends up being below average.

I think if the Jazz were drafting in the 10 - 12 range, they'd be looking at Miles Bridges, but I think that ship has sailed. I don't think the Jazz can trade up to that range, unless some team has an unusual fetish for Ricky Rubio.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

With Rudy being primarily a defensive player, I think the Jazz need two more impact players. They need Donovan and Player X to be able to score 30 pts on any given night. Then they need someone who can score maybe 20 pts. on any given night. Rudy can then chip in his normal 14/11, and someone like Ingles or Crowder can fill in the rest. The bench can be filled by FAs.

It's possible that Exum can become a 16 pt. scorer and be that third guy. He has the talent to do it even if he's not developed yet. Even still, the Jazz would need someone at one of the forward spots to be a versatile, 3-level scorer who can create his own looks and fill it up.

I actually think the Jazz are looking at Julius Randle. Even though he isn't a 3-pt shooter, he's a physical 6'8" forward who can create with the ball and get downhill. The Jazz might think they can develop his game a little more.

Otherwise, the Jazz would be hoping to draft a guard or forward with significant offensive talent. Guys like Anfernee Simons, Dzanan Musa, and possibly a project like Isaac Bonga are worth a look. Kris Wilkes could possibly become a 15-pt scorer in a few years, but he might not do much more than that.

I think Exum can score 17 a game.

I’m fairly sure Randle ain’t on our radar screen.

My opinion on the draft take the best player available... if the guy shows some promise we may be able to include that player to get that 3rd big player when a team breaks up their core. We could also keep the player obviously but the type of player we need is rarely available where we are picking.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

There are a few players out there that could be acquired in a deal. Here are a few off the top of my head --

** Hornets have a new GM in Mitch Kupchak who will probably be charged with unloading a couple guys. One of them might be Kemba Walker. They'd probably move Kidd-Gilchrist, Batum and possibly Lamb, but I don't think we want any of those guys.

** Orlando is a perpetual mess. It's likely that they'd match an offer on Aaron Gordon, but not a given. Hezonja is sitting there, but would be a refurbishment project. I don't think the Jazz want Evan Fournier's deal.

** The Bucks might not match much of a deal on Jabari, but his injury history makes him risky.

** Lakers are going to try to sign two max guys, if not this year then next, and they probably don't want to keep Julius Randle on a bigger deal if that interferes.

 

[Jazz4ever]

We need a big name to sign here as the 3rd piece, it's as simple as that. He currently isn't on the roster, and no chance at 21 going to draft him.
The good news is DM seems like a player everyone would want to play with. If someone like Klay signed on, I think we would be instant contenders.

 

[LoPo]

I think if the Jazz were drafting in the 10 - 12 range, they'd be looking at Miles Bridges, but I think that ship has sailed. I don't think the Jazz can trade up to that range, unless some team has an unusual fetish for Ricky Rubio.

Hypothetically, IF, IF Miles Bridges was worth it, would you consider Burks and #21 for #9 and Noah. I personally think dumping Noah's $19 for 2019-20 would be worth bumping back in the draft for the Knicks. For us, we would gamble on Bridges being the missing piece instead of crossing our fingers on 2019 free agency. Considering much of the league has ample cap space in 2019....

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Hypothetically, IF, IF Miles Bridges was worth it, would you consider Burks and #21 for #9 and Noah. I personally think dumping Noah's $19 for 2019-20 would be worth bumping back in the draft for the Knicks. For us, we would gamble on Bridges being the missing piece instead of crossing our fingers on 2019 free agency. Considering much of the league has ample cap space in 2019....

Nope. I’ve proposed Marvin Williams and 21 for 11 if he was there... can’t take that much dead salary... Marvin is actually a player.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I don't think the Knicks would do that deal.

I think the Jazz might be able to do something small -- like Sefalosha's non-guaranteed deal to take back some salary and swap up to the 15 - 17 range. Maybe Milwaukee or Phoenix considers that deal if they're not in love with someone available at their pick.

Phoenix has two more years of Brandon Knight at ~$14M. Maybe they'd take one year of Alec Burks and give us #16 for #21, but I'm not sure it's worth it unless someone significant falls in the draft.

 

[LoPo]

Nope. I’ve proposed Marvin Williams and 21 for 11 if he was there... can’t take that much dead salary... Marvin is actually a player.

We can't take $15 to $19 million into 2019/20 for what reason? For the 2018/19 season, Burks making $11.5 or Noah or Marvin making up to $18 is a practical wash. We could re-sign Exum and Favors and still be under the luxury. Sure, for 2019/20 it makes things risky with Rubio, but are we really planning on paying $12+ for both Favors AND Rubio while also keeping Exum at a similar number?

If we aren't keeping Rubio, Exum AND Favors, then we would be saving money for 2019 free agency. Are we that confident we are going to bring in a big fish that summer when so many other teams have the same agenda? What happens if Bridges, Doncic, Knox, etc. is that big fish?

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

We can't take $15 to $19 million into 2019/20 for what reason? For the 2018/19 season, Burks making $11.5 or Noah or Marvin making up to $18 is a practical wash. We could re-sign Exum and Favors and still be under the luxury. Sure, for 2019/20 it makes things risky with Rubio, but are we really planning on paying $12+ for both Favors AND Rubio while also keeping Exum at a similar number?

If we aren't keeping Rubio, Exum AND Favors, then we would be saving money for 2019 free agency. Are we that confident we are going to bring in a big fish that summer when so many other teams have the same agenda? What happens if Bridges, Doncic, Knox, etc. is that big fish?

I don't think the Knicks are giving us their lottery pick, even if we take back Noah's horribad contract.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We can't take $15 to $19 million into 2019/20 for what reason? For the 2018/19 season, Burks making $11.5 or Noah or Marvin making up to $18 is a practical wash. We could re-sign Exum and Favors and still be under the luxury. Sure, for 2019/20 it makes things risky with Rubio, but are we really planning on paying $12+ for both Favors AND Rubio while also keeping Exum at a similar number?

If we aren't keeping Rubio, Exum AND Favors, then we would be saving money for 2019 free agency. Are we that confident we are going to bring in a big fish that summer when so many other teams have the same agenda? What happens if Bridges, Doncic, Knox, etc. is that big fish?

We can take the salary... not dead salary. If you had Marvin you could likely offload Jae to save money too. Marvin is still a good player... Noah is washed as hell - that is why I call it DEAD salary. Marvin gives you great production (not at a $15M level... but maybe 7-9M). Noah is worse than what we could get on the minimum and is a bad fit.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think the Knicks are giving us their lottery pick, even if we take back Noah's horribad contract.

That's the other thing... I'm not sure it actually clears functional space for them once they re-up the Zinger. They may as well stretch Noah next year and I think they'd clear roughly the same space.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The best the Jazz might be able to achieve would be to give Charlotte a player and their pick for Kemba Walker. Let Charlotte keep their pick at #11 and take one of the top 3 PGs in the draft (Sexton, Young, SGA). That would give the Jazz another 20-pt scorer. Charlotte may be losing Kemba in a year anyway.

We'd then move Rubio in another deal.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The best the Jazz might be able to achieve would be to give Charlotte a player and their pick for Kemba Walker. Let Charlotte keep their pick at #11 and take one of the top 3 PGs in the draft (Sexton, Young, SGA). That would give the Jazz another 20-pt scorer. Charlotte may be losing Kemba in a year anyway.

We'd then move Rubio in another deal.

Could do the pick, Rubio, and unguaranteed contracts for Marvin and Kemba. Not sure that'd be enough. I would think Phoenix gets in the Kemba sweepstakes and outbids us.

 

[LoPo]

We can take the salary... not dead salary. If you had Marvin you could likely offload Jae to save money too. Marvin is still a good player... Noah is washed as hell - that is why I call it DEAD salary. Marvin gives you great production (not at a $15M level... but maybe 7-9M). Noah is worse than what we could get on the minimum and is a bad fit.

My thinking is Noah + Bridges (#11) is better than #21 and whatever we think we can get in 2019. Having Noah won't cost us any current player unless we are planning on keeping Favors AND Rubio long term. Noah is over the hill I agree, but the whole reason I brought it up is based on our FO valuing somebody that much in the lottery.

Now would NY trade down 12 spots to dump Noah's $19 for 2019/20? That's a good discussion right there. $19 million is almost a max contract they could use to put next to Porzingis to make him happy.

 

[LoPo]

The best the Jazz might be able to achieve would be to give Charlotte a player and their pick for Kemba Walker. Let Charlotte keep their pick at #11 and take one of the top 3 PGs in the draft (Sexton, Young, SGA). That would give the Jazz another 20-pt scorer. Charlotte may be losing Kemba in a year anyway.

This is a decent thought, but my question is this - what player? Charlotte rolls their eyes at #21 so we'd have to send a player. Our only worthy asset would probably be Crowder, but I think he's essential especially if Favors moves on.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

This is a decent thought, but my question is this - what player? Charlotte rolls their eyes at #21 so we'd have to send a player. Our only worthy asset would probably be Crowder, but I think he's essential especially if Favors moves on.

Good question. It might involve a player like Sefalosha and/or Udoh that they waive to clear salary. The Jazz got 2 years of Rubio for OKC's pick that turned out to be #20 in this year's draft. Maybe one year of Kemba for #21 isn't terribly far off, but yeah, they'd want something more, and they might make us eat another deal.

 

[Douchebag K]

We need dudes who can shoot. Throw the kitchen sink at getting Saric

And pray Exum completely explodes

Most importantly does Donovan become accurate off the bounce high volume 3pt shooter

 

[idiot]

A few random thoughts about Jabari, etc.:

• The Mormon thing may be more ambiguous than many people think. Given what I've seen thus far (including Jabari's support for Black Lives Matter): a) his support in Utah is nothing like Jimmer's, which includes an odd white victimization subtext driving much of its energy, and b) he may be the type of Mormon who is happier occasionally visiting Utah than living there.
• Any worries about whether Jabari came back too quickly from both of his ACLs? Though he can clearly still accelerate and get up when he needs to, he seems to have a weird running gait these days (he runs very gingerly -- on the toes). Does anyone know if that's how he moved before the injuries?
• I'm not very confident about being able to hide a poor defensive player (especially one for whom awareness/quick processing seem to be key problems), even with Gobert. I think DL would have to be more confident than I am that he can be turned into an average defender to seriously pursue him.
• I think the Jazz would have to try to get someone like a Looney type if they went after Parker (especially since they'd probably be having to move on from Jerebko/Sefalosha/Favors in many scenarios). Even if Jonas and/or Thabo are still here, I think you've just got to have someone with size and length that's a plus defender/rebounder in the toolkit. Crowder is good to have, but he's not the answer when the Jazz need some defensive size.
• I think that Mirotic is probably the ideal solution for the PF slot if Favors is not back (he's closer to 6'11" than 6'9" it seem to me; his help defense has been vital in helping bottle up Lillard thus far; he's a strong rebounder; he's a decent ball mover and will make a play on occasion; and he absolutely has to be guarded at the 3-pt line). He may not be the "3rd star", but he's probably the next closest thing given the makeup of the Jazz. But I don't think he's gettable.

 

[kabenac]

I think OP Jr. might be had for a modest return... we can offer cap savings through our unguaranteed players and either a pick or Jae Crowder. Not sure they are ready to sell low. I think he has a development jump in him and could score 18-19 per game efficiently in our offense. He isn't a guy that can go get his own shot regularly, but I think he could function like Hayward did.

Porter is amazingly efficient. I love his game. I think they have to move him as the Wall contract is an albatross and Beal is paid a lot as well. Prior to the deadline I laid out the numbers. They can't keep him, especially if they want to match Oubre.