Poll: Should the Jazz Match Hayward's $15.75 a year/4 year Contract?

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I actually agree with this. If we have the ability to give Hayward another huge deal in four years, then something has gone terribly wrong. And it doesn't matter. This is buying four years of worse draft picks.

lol

 

[Jamezz]

Don't you hate it when you give pos rep and mean to neg rep?

This poster is a human turd.

Yeah good one, I LOL'd. Get your neg's and rep's right fella.

Thanks anyway. You will always be in my thoughts

 

[Hantlers]

On a team where he is literally the only viable creator, we have a guy averaging 19/5/4 with good shooting percentages, and he's not doing enough.

We currently have less talent on our roster than we did last year, and Hayward is putting up bigger and better numbers, and people are still bitching. Damn. Some of y'all are either ignorant or just plain stupid.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I really like you Cy, but right now you are acting like a jackass

Just shoving every poster who voted "No" face in my crotch, metaphorically speaking.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Just wish Frankllllin was here to really rub it in.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It's hard to say at this point. Just yesterday the Celts picked up a 1st round pick and young (potential) rotation big for absorbing an expiring contract. The Jazz picked up two 1st round picks last year for absorbing expiring contracts. The Rockets, Cavs and Warriors are still trying to work out deals that may require a third team to take on salary. That list may grow.

FWIW, the pro-Hayward front hasn't been offering much intelligent analysis either. Vague statements about "market price" and there being nothing immediately available, at least as far as the average fan knows, for cap space don't really add much to the conversation.

Pro-Hayward camp popping bottles tbh.

 

[spycam1]

Just wish Frankllllin was here to really rub it in.

What happened to frank anyway?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Trevor Ariza has won a championship, hes had injuries that coincided with his down years, you forget key points like that in your all seeing analysis.

Everyone talks of 3 and D players around here, but clearly the overall sentiment is yall prefer Hayward.

You are flat out wrong about Brook Lopez, if hes healthy and normal he will EASILY get the max, at this point in his career, hes bigger and stronger than most every C, Lopez is like Prime Yao on offense. He punked the Jazz bigmen so bad last year, he barely needed to play in the 2nd half.

Lopez is my preferred Bigman in the 2015 class but IIRC theres a bunch of them, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Asik, enough where if the Jazz had 30 mil in space they could throw out a bunch of offers to worthy players.

Theres a ton of mid-level guys that are interesting; Wesley Matthews, Marco Bellineli, Danny Green, Thaddeus Young

Tobias Harris and Reggie Jackson are restricted. Faried too.

Goran Dragic will opt out, Gerald Green will be on the market, if he has another efficient year, I'd sign him to a decent sized deal no problems.

Maybe even a Gerald Henderson, or Gary Neal. Demarre Carrol, Paul Millsap and Rajon Rondo will be unrestricted aswell.

I can find 100's of scenarios that i prefer over giving Hayward 63 mil, tbh, some of it might take 1 year of patience, but the Tank would strengthen as a result too.

That let Hayward walk so we can sign Gerald Henderson strategy doe.

 

[Harcher]

This poll reasonably represents that Hayward got is 'max' money for his worth. A 58/42 result indicates that this is about what the market will bear for his services. (Granted, the population of the poll are not NBA GMs, but darn close to it in knowledge, experience, and opinion...)

I was right about Gordon in wanting him matched, but good thing we don't have a thread predicting performance of Gobert, Trey or Kanter for me...

 

[Hotdog]

Everyone who said Hayward wasn't worth the max was sorta right at the time. He didn't look like a max guy. He does now. He's really good this year. Maybe it's growth, maybe it's the system, it's probably a little of both.

I'm glad we did match. Hayward is a stud. Especially since he's a two way player.

I would also call him a scorer. Before I would cringe when he would shoot or drive to the basket. Now I dont. I've always loved his defense though.

 

[stitches]

This poll reasonably represents that Hayward got is 'max' money for his worth. A 58/42 result indicates that this is about what the market will bear for his services. (Granted, the population of the poll are not NBA GMs, but darn close to it in knowledge, experience, and opinion...)

I was right about Gordon in wanting him matched, but good thing we don't have a thread predicting performance of Gobert, Trey or Kanter for me...

To be fair, if one makes enough predictions on players development, sooner or later they are going to look foolish in some of their predictions or projections. Noone can have 100% success with that stuff... especially on an internet forum. If we were that good at predicting player success we wouldn't be Jazz forum dwellers, we'd all be employed with NBA teams' FOs.

 

[fishonjazz]

Everyone who said Hayward wasn't worth the max was sorta right at the time. He didn't look like a max guy. He does now. He's really good this year. Maybe it's growth, maybe it's the system, it's probably a little of both.

I'm glad we did match. Hayward is a stud. Especially since he's a two way player.

I would also call him a scorer. Before I would cringe when he would shoot or drive to the basket. Now I dont. I've always loved his defense though.

All this.

I talked earlier about being worried that we overpay him in his next contract.

His current contract is the reason I worry about it.

Hayward had a season last year that was not worthy of his current contract. Based off of last season's play, the contract that Hayward was offered was an overpay. I'm glad that he is living up to that deal but he did not earn his current contract on the court last year in my opinion.

The same thing could happen again in a couple of years (he gets offered a contact that he hadn't yet earned) and maybe next time he doesn't have a huge leap in performance like he did from last year to this year.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Gordon Hayward: 19/5/4 on 45% shooting overall, 38% from 3. He's 24, has played ~9,700 minutes and got a 4/63 contract.

Considering our need for Hayward to be a creator (which nobody else on this does), I think we made the right deal, and I think it was a pretty fair deal. That's what the market was for SF's this year. Obviously we all would have liked for Hayward to be paid less, but he's a really good player who has kept on improving.

Valid point. And this really needs to be addressed going forward by Quin Snyder. If we're going to use Hayward as a point forward to initiate our plays, then Gordon is more valuable than other SF's. But then we really need to look at our guards. Burks, Burke AND Exum may all need to be moved. We need two players to be 3PT threats. Gordon really isn't the type to drift down to the corner (like a Korver) and fire up 3's; that's a waste of his overall skills. But Burke, Exum and Burks haven't shown they're real threats, either.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems like Quin's offense would work best with a player who can drive and dish, look for the P&R, and or kick it back outside, either to a wing who is sitting in the corner or a guard out top. Is Gordon that playmaker? If he is, then our PG and SG better be able to hit 3's. Will Dante eventually be that player? If so, the SG and SF should be 3PT threats.

How many times in game threads have we commented on GH not getting touches in a particular period? I don't think him "disappearing" at times is necessarily his fault. It's a product of QS' offense actually being run, with one of the wings supposed to park himself in the corner after passing off. That's just not a style that's a great fit for Gordon. We don't want him to be a Korver or Marvin Williams. And perhaps Quin realizes that. Dante is often the one drifting down and shooting a lot of 3's (although without a lot of success).

 

[Bawse Dawg]

lol

I was looking for a post of mine in here! Thanks. Already said I was wrong doe.

And there may end up being some kind of merit to that post FYI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[b_line]

Well, he wasn't eligible for the type of contract George got as he hasn't made all-star or all-NBA teams. Don't get me wrong. I am happy about his play thus far, although he's got a ways to go before he's considered one of the best in the league. Simply being the best player on a bad team doesn't mean you're worthy of a max contract. I'm encouraged by the progress he's made, adding physicality and that step-back jumper to his arsenal. He's a bit hard to evaluate because he's not a scorer; his value is always going to be tied to his overall game. Plus, he's handicapped by being on a team where defenders can largely ignore the guards. I guess I feel about Gordon the way Larry H. did about AK when he said he wasn't a max player right now, but would be by the end of his contract. However, unlike AK, Gordon has shown he's willing to continue to work to improve his game.

Also, I never said it's likely Hayward is going to bolt Utah. But his opt-out clause is cause for concern. Hayward isn't LBJ; he isn't Durant. Does Utah want to pay him like those players in 3 years? I think that's a valid thing to consider.

Paul George didn't get the "derrick Rose" exception contract. Hayward and George were eligible for the exact same extension from the team that drafted them.

If Hayward is worth the max in 3 years, you bet your *** utah wants to pay him. I hope he is worth it, and I hope the Jazz keep him. Odds are he gets a raise and a longer contract, but not Carmelo Anthony money.


Also, did you know that LBJ doesn't even make the true max? It's crazy, but true.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Paul George didn't get the "derrick Rose" exception contract. Hayward and George were eligible for the exact same extension from the team that drafted them.

If Hayward is worth the max in 3 years, you bet your *** utah wants to pay him. I hope he is worth it, and I hope the Jazz keep him. Odds are he gets a raise and a longer contract, but not Carmelo Anthony money.


Also, did you know that LBJ doesn't even make the true max? It's crazy, but true.

My mistake on the PG contract. Sounded like more but he signed for 5 years with the full 7.5% raises. By signing an offer with another team, GH only got 4 years with 4% raises. Thanks for the corrections.

Yes, I do realize LBJ took a discount to return to Cleveland. And he, DWayne and Bosh didn't get the full max when they signed with Miami. LBJ also arranged for an opt out after next year, IMO, when the Cavs will most certainly have to offer him 30% of the new cap (well, BMI, but close enough). But I guess even then he won't sign a long-term deal. He's already leading the charge to have max contracts eliminated under the next CBA. He's going to want $50M some day.

As for GH, I hope I'm wrong, but I'll bet he asks for 30% with 7.5% raises in 2 1/2 years. Pure speculation on my part. But Jazz should be prepared for that. And they'll need to then ask if he is as good as the superstars who are also paid at that level.

 

[b_line]

My mistake on the PG contract. Sounded like more but he signed for 5 years with the full 7.5% raises. By signing an offer with another team, GH only got 4 years with 4% raises. Thanks for the corrections.

Yes, I do realize LBJ took a discount to return to Cleveland. And he, DWayne and Bosh didn't get the full max when they signed with Miami. LBJ also arranged for an opt out after next year, IMO, when the Cavs will most certainly have to offer him 30% of the new cap (well, BMI, but close enough). But I guess even then he won't sign a long-term deal. He's already leading the charge to have max contracts eliminated under the next CBA. He's going to want $50M some day.

I think Cleveland is paying the max they can to LBJ, but you are right, he can get way more next year when he opts out, or even more the next year. crazy. I saw some analysis that said he is worth like $54 mil per year, but can't get it with the CBA.

 

[Jazz4ever]

I think Cleveland is paying the max they can to LBJ, but you are right, he can get way more next year when he opts out, or even more the next year. crazy. I saw some analysis that said he is worth like $54 mil per year, but can't get it with the CBA.

If the players union takes a hard stance on that I expect a full year lockout.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If the players union takes a hard stance on that I expect a full year lockout.

The owners would be well justified in doing so... would mean there is no cap or that there is no max salary. Either way it would push more talent to big market well funded teams... we'd become the KC Royals over night.

 

[candrew]

I didn't vote - but I'm still looking for the post where someone said we need to match Hayward because he's going to play like a borderline AS next season.

Also, I hope DL chalks this up as a learning experience - his low-balling efforts last pre-season cost the franchise several million dollars over the next few years. Was anyone really shocked that a white/American above average player got an offer WAY over his then value?