jom2003
Well-Known Member
Wait. What? Spurs went 34-48 the next season after losing Murray, dropping its winning percentage by 4%. Where did you get the 42-40 from?
Potential Trade Targets
- Thread starter Elizah Huge
- Start date
The Nets.
I don't understand why Cy is trying to die on this hill that Murray is a mediocre player. Is the guy a superstar? No. Is the guy a borderline all star with a good contract? Yes. Is the guy at the correct age range to pair with Lauri for the future? Yes. With all that said I would still prefer to trade off vets and focus on the rebuild but I don't think there should be any debate that Murray is a really good player and a nice fit for us.
Russell is a good player. He's just better on a middling team without expectations.
I guess we dont know for sure Dejounte is that kind of player, but he hasnt changed anything in Atlanta. They've only gotten worse with him. There's enough built in excuses to ignore it, but it's still a thing.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
He wasn't coming back and they were going to rebuild. They sold high. Atlanta was fortunate he signed the extension with them this offseason or they'd be underperforming and have an unrestricted FA guard.
I do think his defense has fallen off from his SA days. Maybe Will could resurrect it partly.
Atlanta should not be THIS bad with the talent they have. Not sure who gets most of the blame pie. Murray's basic numbers look pretty good.
Our guard play is so mediocre that a better mediocre player can be a nice fit for the team if you want a limited ceiling.
Again, any guard who needs 17 shots to average 20 is not a good player in my eyes unless they are bringing some truly game changing defense and my eye test and what I've read says Dejounte isnt providing that anymore.
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
I love how one of the arguments in this thread is that "the Spurs were worse without Murray!!!"
What did you expect?? They traded him for the rotting corpse of Danilo Gallinari and some picks. Of course they got worse, that was the intention. It doesn't mean that Murray was/is a winning player.
It's always a huge red flag when a player is "better with the ball in his hands". That's just a nice way of saying that they like to dribble and hold the ball and when they can't do that, their effort level drops. That's exactly what happened to Murray in Atlanta.
Our guard play was mediocre. Have you seen them lately?
And IDK, it's just odd to me we exist in this era where trips to the FT line are given away like candy corn on Halloween yet a guy who is as athletic and big as Dejounte has never learned to get to the FT line is just odd
Keyonte is already nearly doubling up Dejounte's career FTR in his rookie year....
Just kind of a basic team building guideline I would have.
Keyonte is already nearly doubling up Dejounte's career FTR in his rookie year....
Just kind of a basic team building guideline I would have.
Mediocre players can get hot and have good stretches...
Sorry, but our guards have to do more than have a good month of basketball.
I think what Sexton is doing is pretty sustainable and doesn’t look like he will be dropping off in play anytime soon.
They also made other moves outside of Murray that helped them get worse.
Hopefully. Hardy still gave him a short leash after having some brain malfunctions yesterday...
I didn’t love his shot selection from 3 yesterday but I think Hardy left Keyonte/Clarkson in longer because they were cooking. He rides the hot hand when feasible.
Tremendous Upside
Well-Known Member
Sexton has played well of late, but he has way too long a history as a guy who will dribble into the trees without a plan for me to buy the idea that he's turned a corner and is now someone who facilitates and plays within himself.
He has to keep this up for the rest of the season, at least. The Mavs game was a great win, but Collin displayed some of his old bad habits again.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Its just funny that we are sitting right on the line of the protections of the pick with owe to OKC right now. DA literally straddling the line right now.
To get the topic off of Murray, my main target would still be Moses Moody.
KO+Clarkson for Moody/CP3. Maybe try to get a first (or handful of 2nds) as well with how good KO is playing and hopefully combine that with a surging Clarkson.
KO+Clarkson for Moody/CP3. Maybe try to get a first (or handful of 2nds) as well with how good KO is playing and hopefully combine that with a surging Clarkson.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
He's done better at seeing when to take it all the way and score and when to stop and pivot. I think other than hitting his spot up threes that has been the biggest thing. He's made less mistakes driving than JC has. Not that it will never rear its head again but he seems to have made serious strides figuring that out.
I'm not actually sure there's been a fall off, at least in his talent level. IMO, his SAS days (especially that last season), were probably overrated. His ATL performance is probably underrated. This is especially the case on defense as you had mentioned. Much has been made about his dropoff in rebounds, but in reality it did not really have the effect that his high output would suggest and a lot of the dropoff in raw rebounding is likely due to playing with better rebounders. I don't think we mention enough that Dejounte is a ball dominant player who is also playing with one of the most ball dominant players in the game. One of the reasons they are this bad, the fit is not good between Trae and DJ....and tbh we should have known this.
Murray's numbers without Trae:
31.2 pts/100
10.3 ast/100
55.7 TS%
1487 MIN
Murray's numbers 21/22 with SAS:
29.3 pts/100
12.8 ast/100
53.4 TS%
2366 MIN
This is not perfect analysis, of course, but I think Murray is the same level of player he was in SAS. If anything, he's better because his improved 3FG% makes him easier to play with.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Lavine and Murray are both underrated at this point in time. Should we just go for both? lol.
Murray might be underrated by some on this board, but he's still going to take a nice package to release from the Hawks.
The Jazz also have nothing the Hawks would want from a win-now standpoint for it to make sense (unless we are giving them Walker, who would be great w/ Trae, which I could be talked in to). But even that doestn make sense for the Hawks because it would be tough to trade Capela for value, so grabbing a center just doesnt make a lot of sense when you can't offload your old ones.
The only way the Jazz get Murray is in the off-season if Atlanta decides to blow everything up.