What's new

Roe v. Wade is going down

Even you don't seem to really believe an embryo is a life with your wish-washy answer here. Wouldn't have needed all that hemming and hawing if I'd asked what the charge should be for killing a toddler.
There is no hemming, hawing, or wishy-washiness. The death of a toddler can and has been charged as first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, and not charged at all. I believe a fetus is no different from a toddler (except for them being in different stages of development fishonjazz). If the pregnancy was the result of consensual sex, the unborn child was healthy, the mother was in good health, and the only reason for the termination of the pregnancy was that the mother desired for the child to be killed so that she didn't have the responsibility of having a child, then yes I would personally support charges of first degree murder.

Our criminal justice system already takes that view when someone other than the mother kills an unborn child, and that includes the male parent of the child. I believe the justice system should be even handed and get rid of the carve-out that gives women a special status allowing them to kill children without the same criminal consequences anyone else would face. I think women should have equal rights (which is to say both men and women have no rights to kill children without consequences).
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: MVP
In both cases the only thing being defended against is having a living child.
If you're not aware of the permanent changes done to your wife's body by carrying your children, you're a disgrace as a husband. If you are aware, you've refuted your own argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MVP
There is no hemming, hawing, or wishy-washiness. The death of a toddler can and has been charged as first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, and not charged at all. I believe a fetus is no different from a toddler (except for them being in different stages of development fishonjazz). If the pregnancy was the result of consensual sex, the unborn child was healthy, the mother was in good health, and the only reason for the termination of the pregnancy was that the mother desired for the child to be killed so that she didn't have the responsibility of having a child, then yes I would personally support charges of first degree murder.

Our criminal justice system already takes that view when someone other than the mother kills an unborn child, and that includes the male parent of the child. I believe the justice system should be even handed and get rid of the carve-out that gives women a special status allowing them to kill children without the same criminal consequences anyone else would face. I think women should have equal rights (which is to say both men and women have no rights to kill children without consequences).
How does the male parent kill the unborn child? Is it the same as an abortion?
 
Sadly, there are many examples. One incident off the top of my head was Scott Peterson who was convicted of second degree murder for the killing of his unborn son.

Did he take the mother to a doctor after discussing with the mother and the doctor removed the fetus?
If not, then I think you are stupid for comparing men killing an unborn fetus to a mother getting an abortion. But again, it's you we are talking about so it's not surprising that you think an abortion is the same as a man killing a fetus inside a woman.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MVP
Did he take the mother to a doctor after discussing with the mother and the doctor removed the fetus?
If not, then I think you are stupid for comparing men killing an unborn fetus to a mother getting an abortion. But again, it's you we are talking about so it's not surprising that you think an abortion is the same as a man killing a fetus inside a woman.
As far as the child is concerned it is the same. In both cases the child ends up dead. The act was deliberate and the decision to carry out the act was made by one of the parents. The crime isn't "too little discussion". The crime was the killing of a child, and in both cases the child is killed.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: MVP
ABORTION IS MURDER!

Unless… we suffer huge electoral defeats. Now it’s suddenly not murder and we need to find a compromise.

What’s funny is they’ve been telling their base for years that abortion… any abortion… is murder. But now that they caught the car and are suffering electoral defeats, now suddenly there’s room for compromise? Hmmm


View: https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1643936188099698688?s=46&t=QT7YFlZ_IlHq81PpZAhKgw


View: https://twitter.com/jonschweppe/status/1643434430265016323?s=46&t=QT7YFlZ_IlHq81PpZAhKgw


Hmm. I thought it was a state’s right issue? Guess not if we’re pushing a 15 week national ban.
How is this going to win over young people? Improve lives? Why are we playing politics with this issue?
IMG_7283.png
 
Last edited:
My take on this is the polar opposite from OB, and we have discussed it ad nauseum to the point where I just don't engage. He generally sees the baby as being an unwanted presence forcing the mother to slavery and is essentially a parasite (my word, not his, but that is how it comes across from his arguments), but I believe, in this vein, that the woman is holding the baby hostage, not the other way around, as the baby is only there as a result of someone else's actions, whoever that might be, and as such had zero say in the matter, and is not capable of taking any action against the mother in and of itself. I also believe that it is a real human life deserving of the same protections as any other human life. So I am generally against abortion on that basis, and also because I believe a human life has value even if it hasn't been delivered yet, and that value needs to be taken into account in these decisions. The sticky wicket is the issue of what constitutes a protected human life, compared as pre- and post-birth. And according to science, and of course our laws, there is no definitive answer as to when that fetus is to be considered a baby no different than one that has already been delivered. Other than now, with laws against all abortion trying to set the standard, and a very unreasonable and unscientific standard any way you look at it.

However, with no reasonable legal nor real scientific basis to go on, nothing definitive about when that "life" really begins, it is all opinion and conjecture, and so my stance is, who am I to interfere in a woman's right to make a decision, which for many if not most or all, is a fully life-altering decision, whether to abort that baby or not. It is not my place, and I believe it isn't anyone else's either. Especially not legislators and government officials. And until we find out otherwise, through some as of yet unknown scientific discovery, such as discovering that the infant can "think" and feel and is fully human at a given point during gestation, then that decision needs to belong to the mother and her loved ones ALONE, not to the state or absolutely not to idiots like me.

And I fully support abortion in cases where the life of the baby or mother are at risk, or in cases like the one above, where there is no hope of the baby surviving. That is simply barbaric. Everyone in the state of Texas that allowed that travesty should be ashamed of themselves.

And frankly the ones who forced this on her, who framed the laws with zero lee-way and zero compassion, better be prepared for a rude awakening in the day of their judgement before their God when he asks why they failed to follow the second great commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself.

Nowhere in the bible does it say "force your neighbor to do what you want based on your interpretation of these obscure ancient writings and so you can win political point from other likeminded idiots."

So **** that ****.
 
He generally sees the baby as being an unwanted presence forcing the mother to slavery and is essentially a parasite (my word, not his, but that is how it comes across from his arguments),
There are a lot of people who use the word parasite for a fetus, so I don't blame you for hearing it in my words.
 
My take on this is the polar opposite from OB, and we have discussed it ad nauseum to the point where I just don't engage. He generally sees the baby as being an unwanted presence forcing the mother to slavery and is essentially a parasite (my word, not his, but that is how it comes across from his arguments), but I believe, in this vein, that the woman is holding the baby hostage, not the other way around, as the baby is only there as a result of someone else's actions, whoever that might be, and as such had zero say in the matter, and is not capable of taking any action against the mother in and of itself. I also believe that it is a real human life deserving of the same protections as any other human life. So I am generally against abortion on that basis, and also because I believe a human life has value even if it hasn't been delivered yet, and that value needs to be taken into account in these decisions. The sticky wicket is the issue of what constitutes a protected human life, compared as pre- and post-birth. And according to science, and of course our laws, there is no definitive answer as to when that fetus is to be considered a baby no different than one that has already been delivered. Other than now, with laws against all abortion trying to set the standard, and a very unreasonable and unscientific standard any way you look at it.

However, with no reasonable legal nor real scientific basis to go on, nothing definitive about when that "life" really begins, it is all opinion and conjecture, and so my stance is, who am I to interfere in a woman's right to make a decision, which for many if not most or all, is a fully life-altering decision, whether to abort that baby or not. It is not my place, and I believe it isn't anyone else's either. Especially not legislators and government officials. And until we find out otherwise, through some as of yet unknown scientific discovery, such as discovering that the infant can "think" and feel and is fully human at a given point during gestation, then that decision needs to belong to the mother and her loved ones ALONE, not to the state or absolutely not to idiots like me.

And I fully support abortion in cases where the life of the baby or mother are at risk, or in cases like the one above, where there is no hope of the baby surviving. That is simply barbaric. Everyone in the state of Texas that allowed that travesty should be ashamed of themselves.

And frankly the ones who forced this on her, who framed the laws with zero lee-way and zero compassion, better be prepared for a rude awakening in the day of their judgement before their God when he asks why they failed to follow the second great commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself.

Nowhere in the bible does it say "force your neighbor to do what you want based on your interpretation of these obscure ancient writings and so you can win political point from other likeminded idiots."

So **** that ****.
Ya for me it comes down to this: I dont know everyones situation. Im not in everyone else shoes. So i shouldn't have any say in it. Now if there were people out there who were getting pregnant and then having abortions because they thought it was fun and they were evil and just loved killing babies then obviously I would not want that to happen. I just dont think that is happening. I think that damn near 100% of abortions that occur are things that suck for the mother and family. I think that they hate getting abortions and would much rather not feel like they need to do it but the scenario they are in makes them have to make a tough decision. I feel sorry for anyone who gets an abortion and give my compassion to them. I think getting an abortion would suck ***. Im not going to have hate for them and call them evil or homicidal or baby killers or whatever like some do.
 
A fetus and a child are the same thing. The term "with child" has been used to describe pregnant women for as long as we've had language. The delivery process does not fundamentally change what the child is. It was the offspring of a mother and father before birth and is the offspring of a mother and father after birth. It is a child. You are building a semantic wall in your head to morally justify an act that is truly horrific. An abortion is a mother choosing to kill her child.
Nope, you are fundamentally wrong. Whatever you name fetus to justify your outdated views does not change the fact that it is still just a fetus. You can call it embryo before 8 weeks too if you want to be very specific.
 
Last edited:
A draft of an upcoming Supreme Court decision was leaked to Politico. Roe v. Wade is being struck down. There are three things about this that I find interesting, and the “right” of women to snuff out a human life while remaining free from any legal consequence for that act is the least interesting.

Interesting thing #1:
Roe v. Wade was the most egregious power grab by a branch of our government in the last century. There is nothing in the constitution about abortion and the 10th amendment specifically says that if it ain’t in the constitution then the federal government, including the Supreme Court, has no power in the matter. That it was the Supreme Court that did it makes it even worse because they are not lawmakers and they are not elected. For all those who have recently decried that “our democracy is in danger”, you should be extremely happy for this decision. If you are not then you are a hypocrite who has been revealed as willing to say anything you think gives you power to enact things you want.

Interesting thing #2:
When it became clear Roe v. Wade was going down, the draft was leaked to the press to generate public outrage. The danger of doing this cannot be understated and could potentially lead to one or more the justices being killed by an unhinged zealot. The person or persons who leaked this draft must be identified and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Interesting thing #3:
Roe v. Wade may being going down and that may restrict abortion in some states but that doesn’t ban abortion. States cannot APK GTA 5 Mobile their people from leaving and other states have already vowed to uphold a woman’s ability to snuff out a human life while remaining free from any legal consequences. Young women may need to travel a bit farther but otherwise nothing but some convenience is being taken from them.
Regarding Interesting thing #1, it is true that the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade was controversial and has been the subject of debate since it was handed down in 1973. Some argue that the court overstepped its bounds by striking down state laws restricting abortion. Others argue that the decision was necessary to protect women's reproductive rights. Ultimately, the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Constitution is what determines the law of the land.

Regarding Interesting thing #2, it is true that leaking a draft of a Supreme Court decision to the press is highly unusual and could have serious consequences. The identities of the leakers, if they can be identified, may be subject to legal action.

Regarding Interesting thing #3, it is true that if Roe v. Wade is overturned, the legality of abortion will be determined by state law. Some states may continue to allow abortion, while others may restrict it. However, it is not accurate to say that women who live in states where abortion is banned can simply travel to another state to obtain the procedure without any legal consequences. There are many factors that can make access to abortion difficult or impossible, including financial barriers, logistical challenges, and legal restrictions.
 
I thought this was supposed to be decided at the state level? I don’t think Repubs understand how unpopular this is to normal people. They’ve sealed themselves off from mainstream news and regular voters and live in this Christian nationalism Fox News echo chamber, they’ve just completely lost touch. I have a feeling that abortion along with Trump in 2024 is going to lead to a huge blue tsunami that will hopefully begin the reckoningprocess that the GOP needs to go through (they’ve been putting it off since 2012).


View: https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1685085664411357185?s=46&t=QT7YFlZ_IlHq81PpZAhKgw
 
I thought this was supposed to be decided at the state level? I don’t think Repubs understand how unpopular this is to normal people. They’ve sealed themselves off from mainstream news and regular voters and live in this Christian nationalism Fox News echo chamber, they’ve just completely lost touch. I have a feeling that abortion along with Trump in 2024 is going to lead to a huge blue tsunami that will hopefully begin the reckoningprocess that the GOP needs to go through (they’ve been putting it off since 2012).


View: https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1685085664411357185?s=46&t=QT7YFlZ_IlHq81PpZAhKgw


Yup.
 
As someone who is strongly in the pro-life camp, I’m disappointed with the result in Ohio but I’m content that it was the people of the state of Ohio who made the decision. It wasn’t mandated by an unelected Supreme Court, nor was it done at the federal level. The Tenth Amendment should forbid either the Supreme Court or Congress from weighing in on abortion. All states should have absolute say over that issue even if it means some will choose to enshrine a right for women to murder their own children.
 
Top